Thread: Powder coating frame versus painting.

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Last night my Son Dan and I finished up the final pieces of fabrication and welding on his frame. Now we simply have to get it sandblasted and covered with some coating. He is going to go with satin or gloss black on everything, but he wants the frame to be perfect, which means filling all the imperfections with some sort of filler and lots of sanding before the final coating goes on. That is where we are on the fence.

He has considered having it powder coated, even though the process leaves a little texture. That is fine, but where we are confused is what the steps should be and what products to use. As we understand it, here is how it would go:

1) Have frame sandblasted to clean the metal.

2) Use some sort of filler such as Lab Metal or All Metal to fill the imperfections, then DA it all until it is smooth. (We understand Lab Metal will withstand higher Powder Coating temps, but is tougher to sand. All Metal can be used, but your coater needs to go no more than maybe 250 degrees on the curing process.)

3) Then the coater sandblasts the frame again prior to the actual coating process to give it some tooth. (Does this screw up the Lab or All Metal you have used to smooth the frame?)

4) Finally, the frame is coated and baked.


We just recently used powder coating for the first time to have Dan's wheels done.........we like the results. We have always spray painted everything, but this new frame has so many nooks and crannies that we would have a hard time getting even coverage into all of them. There are also 50 holes we drilled, and each one of those is the potential for a run, especially using black paint which is heavy. We even considered having the body shop that painted Dons T and my T bodies do the frame, but we fear they might not understand that a frame on a fenderless car has to be as good as the body.

I know someone on here (maybe Ken) posted that he sometimes sands and paints over powder coating in areas he wants to be really good, but how do you get the paint to be a perfect match for the areas you leave coated?

We are going to call the coater tomorrow to ask some of these questions, but I felt some of you on here might be able to give us your experience with having a frame coated. The part that has us most confused is the Lab Metal or All Metal procedure, so any advice any of you might have on that would be great.

Here is the frame, and as you can see, there are a lot of areas that will be tough to reach with conventional painting methods. Thanks in advance guys.

Don

I still paint mine, Don... I use a touch up gun in the tight areas and getting it inside wherever the inner part of the frame will show, let it tack off, then load up the big gun and shoot light coats on the whole frame, followed by some clear.

To make the tight spots easier to get at, I mount the frame to an engine stand on either end so I can rotate it around to get the best coverage....

Powder coating is fine, I just don't like the finish that it gives. Think I'll stick to paint and clear.

Don
I had the frame on the old funky truck (OFT-'29 AA) powder coated. It came no were near looking as good as the paint. The back end of my truck, being a flatbed shows. So I will go back to paint. On my sandrail powder coat was ok. It (powder coat) is tough as nails and works great on the sand dunes. IMO Dan will be much happier with paint.

Earl

Go to my intro post for picture of truck and "camper"

You know Don powder coating is a very good and durable painting process, it certainly has its place in many parts of our sport. However in your case and after looking at you and your sons work it probably is not for you guys "On A Frame" that is going to be exposed. I personally find the Texture as you call it, to be not the best thing for parts that are going to be viewed in the way this frame is going to be. You guys have built this frame to be almost a focal point of the car. You are talking about using some sort of filler to get as smooth as possible. Tons of sanding and prep work and then coat with the worst case of Orange Peel Looking stuff you ever saw. Don it just don't make sense when you think about it.

Paint it Don hell man you are worried about getting into all of those crevices and hard to get at spots. Who said this was going to be easy? And Don stand back and look at that beatiful frame and tell me were easy played any part in it. Be a shame for on the last lap, getting ready for pay day --- Up Jumped Easy!!! I for one don't believe that fits into you or your sons personality at all.

Roland

Originally Posted by Hombre259

Paint it Don hell man you are worried about getting into all of those crevices and hard to get at spots. Who said this was going to be easy? And Don stand back and look at that beatiful frame and tell me were easy played any part in it. Be a shame for on the last lap, getting ready for pay day --- Up Jumped Easy!!! I for one don't believe that fits into you or your sons personality at all.

Roland

Heck yes, if it were easy, everyone would be doing it!~!!!!

I powder coated my frame with wet look black powder and it came out very nice. My guy did a cure bake that removes the orange peel. But i did paint the engine trans and drive line and a few accessories. I painted with Dupont Centari AE Pitch Black.and used the mid temp AE reducer and the catalyst was super wet look catalyst. It was a perfect match for my frame and very shiny. Be sure and use an etching primer with the frame if u paint it. The Dupont would be a great choice for the frame if u dont PC.

I'm going through this same choice currently.

I just had 24 pieces of my highboy body powdercoated in "primer" this week. The cost was less than media blasting, buying epoxie primer, and renting a spray booth to shoot it and it's covered very well "inside and out". I mounted the parts back on the frame today, as I "DA sanded" all of the flat surfaces to 60 grit. The powdercoat was thick and sands just about like epoxie paint. The sanded surface is great, it does not "ball up" when sanded. It filled in a lot of my metal imperfections.

I plan on having the frame and rear axle housing powdercoated next after I'm finished with final body prep before paint. The frame will be done in a color that matches (RAL 3004 Maroon) my final paint color. After the frame is coated I will "tape off" the inside of the frame and sand and prep the outside edges that show on a highboy.

One thing that really helped with the price was that I had built a rotessiore for the body out of two Harbour Freight HD engine stands. I also took the parts in already metal finished so they had a minimum amount of prep before the coating process. Time is money for any business, and I certainly have more time, than that other thing.

I agree that "plastic coating" does not look the same as a "painted surface". But it's easy to do, cheap, durable, and provides a great surface to paint the highly viewable areas. I don't see how you can go wrong with powdercoat.

Don,
Yes, I suggested that before. I haven't had any problems matching paint on my red roadster frame or on a black one I did. If there is orange peel then it wasn't cured with the correct time or heat. If you get a chance look at our trailers, they look like they are sprayed. I wouldn't do your son's frame any other way. My 2 cents
That frame is a work of art. I mean Dan
Ken

money is obviously not a problem.. so just have it chromed!

Don I know next to nothing about prep for powder coating, but think it will hold up better to daily driving and say go for it!

Sorry to respond back so late, we just got in from another day working on his car. All that input was exactly what we needed, thank you to everyone who offered suggestions. I really like the idea of powder coating primarily because it will suck coating into every little space that we might miss with paint. There are some very tight spots especially where the center X member joins the siderails at the middle of the car. I've looked at it from every angle and I don't think any amount of fogging or spraying will catch those spots, and some others too. I also agree that most powder coating doesn't look exactly like buffed and waxed paint, but I have seen some that comes pretty close. Like Ken said, the coating on his trailers is first rate, so I guess it depends on the company who does the work.

The other thing is that it is just time for this car to get done. He has been at it for over 4 years, and it's time to wrap this baby up. He could spend another 4 years sweating every little detail, but at some point you just have to call it ok and put plates on it. By getting the frame powder coated we can spend a weekend prepping it with Lab metal, drop it off at the coater's , and pick it up a few days later. If the look isn't what we wanted we can do as some of you suggested, mask off the interior sections and spray paint the outer rails.

Let me ask this........what do you have to do to get paint to stick to powder coating? Scuff and paint, or do you need something to give more adhesion like epoxy primer?

Thanks again all for the great help.

Don

you can sand it and paint over it .i painted air plane frames . all were tubes smaller then 3/4 moly tubes were a big pain in the a$$ my friend that builds planes used polyester poly urethane ppg durathane went to powed coat they look very good and the powder gets every were the paint was abit tough. as for powder with a abit of orange peel i can not see why you could not step sand it up to 1500 or 2000 sand paper and wheel out the spots you see or wet sand and clear the out side of the rails? and sand and wheel

Yep, Pat is right just treat it like anything else. There is one more consideration with powder coating. Remember it is static electrically charged, so if you have two tubes closer than 1/4" you can have a problem with the powder covering in between the tubes, the positive negative thing starts happening and it actually pushes the powder away. Just don't be disappointed if you have any of these areas. You can fix them, again the benefits far out weigh the negatives in my opinion.
Ken

The chroming comment was a bit flippant on my part, please excuse.

But seriously, if you truly want long time corrosion resistance, then some type of dipping is the only way. What about a zinc dip ( galvanized ) followed by painting or powder coating?

As a custom powder coater, I say powder it
many benefits over paint

Durability
reduced cost
over 6500 colors available
can base coat clear coat it
2, 3, 4, stage finishes, Candy's, pearls, metallics
lab metal sux, much better products to use.

We do show quality frames, pieces, parts daily.
we also powder coat, and do body work to car body's

If you have a custom powder coater that has the proper equipment, and training you will not be disappointed.

pre treatment is everything, just like painting
Ideally your coater will need to..
1) blast metal to remove rust, and profile surface
2) D/A frame to remove any metal distortions
3) Iron Phosphate chemical pre-treatment
4) Add filler, and D/A sand to perfection (NOT LAB METAL!)
LAB METAL PITS, SHRINKS, AND PIN HOLES IT IS JUNK FOR POWDER COATING!!
5) Shoot base color, block sand entire frame like you would do a skim coat for paint
6) Shoot base color 2nd time, color sand
7) Shoot clear / maybe wet sand and buff

These are show quality steps we take

most people 95% are happy with
blast, sand out, repair major defects, and single, or 2 stage coat, no sanding

With the powders available now, and high gloss powders with flow agents, when curing the powder liquefies, and literally moves across the part, and fixes most minor flaws, with almost no orange peel.

tight areas called Faraday areas that spit out the powder are easily over come by a seasoned Powder coater.

Hopfully I did not over load you, and helped a little