Thread: Liquid Oxygen

Tweet

I don't have anything to say about the rocket ship....howecre, I felt left out so thought I'd reply...hehe

Originally posted by Troglodyte
I don't have anything to say about the rocket ship....howecre, I felt left out so thought I'd reply...hehe

LOX Ship

Thankd Streets.........now ya know why I hide in my cave........smelly and hairy feet don't seem to get the gals.......but I do carry the big stick

http://www.rocketkart.com/ ill race him in this gocart and blow away his( fantasy fueler )any day of the week

ROCKETMAN

You guys know the difference between a fairey tail and a sea story?

A fairey tail starts off with "Once upon a time"

And a sea story starts off with "Now this ain't no Sh!!"

ay!!!!!!!!??###

Now i know u tore head a new one and i dont want to have the same fate, but if you were able to create an entirely oxygen atmosphere inside the cylender would the reaction take place faster due to the increased surface contact with oxygen? I am working from a high school understanding of chem so bare with me. If you have nothing but oxygen u would get the reaction with the hydrocarbons resulting in just water and carbon dioxide. A complete reaction might be the answer to better combustion and thus increased power, and no nitrogen compounds. So althought head may be as many of you have labled a dipshit there might also be an added efficency to the oxygen injections.

Also i was born in 88 so dont be knocking the young guys, i am eager to learn. My father and i picked up a 1937 buick and are going to try to turn it into atleast a viable driver, or hot rod if i get my way.
Also please excuse my spelling

Allowed?
You, sir should be annointed!
You have showed us all more in two senrences than all the political trolls have taken months to do.
I am in awe.
Such grace.
Such wit.
Such spelling acumen.
Or do you drive an Accura?
Jeff

Originally posted by HEAD
I was having some fun in Gainsville Fl.
runing a small block on liquid oxygen
against some old timer, my little street
rod ran a 4.60 flat. .3 faster than
my friend.Should Liquid Oxygen be allowed?

I've got one final point to prove that this guy doesn't know his stuff: Absolute zero is -523 degrees F. Nothing can be colder than absolute zero because at absolute zero, there is no kinetic engergy (heat) left in the atoms. All molecular movement ceases. So, -600 degrees F is not possible.

Ya just can't get around the third law, can ya?

Back to the original question and trying to clear up some misunderstandings, the idea of bringing more O2 into the combustion chamber is a good idea. In fact using NNO brings in additional O for aiding the combustion of the hydrocarbons. Instead of using liquid oxygen at about 80 degrees K (-315.67 degrees F), why not just get a bottle of oxygen from an oxy-acetylene torch rig and use a pressure regulator to feed just a little ambient-temperature oxygen through a commercial NOS carb plate? There really is no need to use cold liquid oxygen since already NOS setups have shown the abiltiy to blow up engines when too much is used, just a little oxygen at a low pressure could substitute for the more common NOS setups. The real danger is burnt valves and other mechanical destruction if too much oxygen and hydrocarbon fuel gets into the engine. Let Tech1 comment on the relative safety of using pure oxygen and then go back to the Apollo-11 disaster (I think it was 11) which killed three astronauts when their capsule was filled with pure oxygen and supported a tragic fire. I think it could be done and might be cheaper than the usual nitrous setup BUT (!!!!!!) the amount of the oxygen would need to be very small and well controlled. Going back to absolute zero it is widely believed to be 0 K = -273.15 C = -459.67 F. The formula is:

F = (9/5)C + 32

If C = -273.15 you need to use the minus sign for C so that you get the -460 F instead of -523 F. Maybe it is time to rethink the use of nitrous systems as they are now and use ordinary room temperature bottled oxygen, BUT (!!!) I think the reason for using nitrous oxide in the first place is to LIMIT and CONTROL the amount of oxygen going into the intake. I do not accept responsibility for suggesting use of pure oxygen in a nitrous plate/nozzles, but maybe commercial manufacturers of nitrous systems could reconsider CAREFUL CONTROL of direct use of oxygen in place of nitrous oxide. For a simple comparison there will be two O atoms in O2 versus only one in NNO and there is a difference in weight in the sense that there is roughly (44/32) times as much O in O2 as in NNO by weight, so maybe it is too difficult to control the very small amount of added oxygen needed just this side of blowing up an engine? As far as the Third Lawof Thermodynamics goes, the limiting temperature is roughly -273 degrees C or -460 degrees F. A Pt block would not help the situation for an engine because besides being outrageously expensive, it would be too soft for an engine block. I guess the idea of a Platimum block (or Gold for that matter) is that those metals resist reaction with oxygen, but there is little mechanical strength in either metal. Thus there is some slight science fiction value in using an extreme amount of oxygen in a block which resists oxidation, but aren't there enough NOS explosions already? At least almost every magazine covering drag races manages to show one engine bowing up, sometimes a supercharger and sometimes a NOS fire. It would seem that present nitrous systems are adequate up to the limit of mechanical destruction of engines already and there is no need for pure O2; Fe blocks are certainly stronger than Pt or Au. I have merely stated some obvious things and hope my usual wordiness has not offended anyone. Conclusion: No need to go beyond present NOS systems!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally posted by Streets
I still want an ATOMIC powered T-Pail!!! What happened to BUTTHEAD?? He wuz way funnier than DON.... hehehehe

Ya....... I kinda' like ol' Head. That wuz' a purdy' entertaining thread for awhile there. He just kept diggin' deeper N' deeper. Sadly he then did a flameout and that wuz' that.

My only humorous comment will have to be to ask the older members to remember when in 1946 EVERYTHING was ATOMIC (!!!) including BUBBLE GUM (!!!) I have seen pictures of the attempts by the U.S. Air Force to build an "atomic engine" for an airplane and they wrote up a patent for Richard Feynman which went through. The picture showed an engine test stand (not an engine stand!) with all the vegatation around the engine turned a dead-brown color due to radiation leakage. Then they calculated how much lead (Pb) it would take to shield a pilot and concluded they could never get the heavy plane off the ground! But wait (!) even though the patent has run out, there ARE plans for an atomic rocket engine for use in space! Therefore if we can find those JATO rockets previously mentioned (left over from a Bonneville run) and hook enough of them to get Streets' PAIL into orbit (eliminate the very heavy Pt block!) THEN the PAIL could go INTERPLANETARY (!) and what is better, Streets could use the oxygen to breath in outer space. The question is whether there is enough room in the shortened bed for necessary food and special liquids to support life and whether a welding mask can be beefed up for the life support helmet! It's easy to write science fiction, but real science is harder to do although luck helps. BUT (!) for pure maximum fun why not go back to the thread where Treekiller showed the picture of the Bunny with pancakes on it's head, it's not clear whether that was a representation of a "fast flathead" or one of those VW "pancake engines"?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

I dont know if this is at all possible but could one run an engine on oxygen and hydrogen produced by elctrolosis fed of an extra alternator. I remember someone using an extra alternator to make hydrogen to increase milage, but could u just use the hydrogen to power the engine?

For the o2 engine could one acurately match the mols of o2 and the hydrocarbon to prevent explosive fun. Again i am working from a rudementery knowlege of chem but could u just meter the fuel to prevent exlosion and just create an o2 rich envirment to get a complete burn and wringe every BTU from the hydrocarbon.

The apollo mission that blew up with O2 was apollo 1 which caught fire during presurization tests, a spark from the electrics set fire to the atmosphere due to the redesigned hatch which lacked the eplosive bolts which malfunctioned during the last mercury mission as i remeber. THis prevented any possible rescue. Three fine americans dead. THey had used the pressureize oxygen in the earlier gemini and mercury tests without the fire and despite the dangers they continued with the apollo one. After they had to redesign the hatch and the testing persedure. Apollo 11 was the first to land on the moon.

I think that is mostly acurate i am sure there is someone who knows more than me.

I am a newbie to this Forum but evidently there was a thread entitled something like "No Free Lunch" or something like that pointing out that the energy to electrolyze the water to Hydrogen and Oxygen has to come from somewhere. There is a company in Florida which I used to consult for/to which has a patent on making a mixture of Methane and Hydrogen already premixed with some Oxygen and CO and has used this gas fuel in a Ferrari. Others on this Forum including Streets has pointed out that bottled propane is available and acts like 110 octane fuel. My problem with the use of fuels containing Hydrogen (especially premixed with some oxygen) is that the metering valve to the engine has to be capable of shutting off completely when the engine is not running because Hydrogen is the lightest gas and most easily diffuses through the slightest leak to make chance explosions a real problem. Apparently fork lift trucks and other vehicles using propane have good regulators, but it is not clear to me that regulators for heavier gases would be adequate for Hydrogen. Maybe braking could be coupled to electrolysis to generate Hydrogen and Oxygen from braking energy, but as far as using that fuel to run an engine which runs a generator which makes more gas fuel, that would be a perpetual motion machine which will not work in actual practice. Maybe braking energy could be used or bottled fuel gas could be made available at "gas stations", but I think the hazzard from gas fuels instead of liquid fuels could be a real challenge to saftey, but that is just my opinion. My adolescent dream in fitting with Streets' call for more humor above was to build an electric car covered with solar cells and park it under a street lamp at night to let the public utilities charge the battery for me. I believe that there are races every summer where college students build solar cars and race them across the U.S., I think that is called the "Sun Race"???? Unfortunately these cars have a problem on a cloudy day when the intensity of sunlight is reduced.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder