Thread: title legality?

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"We buy a $ 500 junker, put lots of parts on it that we pay sales tax on (for the most part) then we supply our talents and labor to it for X number of years and this car now becomes a work of art that is worth $ 30,000.00 (to pick a number) Now they want us to pay tax AGAIN on that inflated figure."

Same deal here in Ontario. Any vehicle more than 25 years old must have an appraisal at the time of registration (or change) and sales tax is determined on that amount. The only way to avoid this is to have the appraisal done at the time you pick up the $500 junker and get the vehicle registered as "non-operating." Then tax is paid on the $500 (or appraised value) at that time and when you finally put the car on the road it is only necessary to have it safetied. Unfortunately many builders forget or neglect this first step and receive a big shock when they finish the car and are taxed on the $30,000 value. Not sure if that procedure is available in other jurisdictions.

This situation isn't going to stop here, if they are successfully at this and it generates the revenue they think it will, it will be coming to a town near you. I'm going to do as much as I can to fight this, and encourage everyone I know to do as much as possible. I'm not naive enough to think this is going to go away. They have been working on this for years and now have a base to work from.
Ken

The real problem, in California and everywhere else, is the idiots we send to the state and federal legislature!!!! If they're in office more then 1 term they seem to forget that they are there for the benefit of the MAJORITY of voters who put them in office and there only loyalty is to the highest bidder!!!!! The same bunch of "good old boys" in charge year after year doesn't even resemble a government of the people, for the people, and by the people as the constitution intended.... It only leads to a government that is for sale to the highest bidder.....

Around here we keep a couple of spies in the state legislature who watch for what the heck is coming up for vote... Doesn't really take a whole lot of phone calls and meetings to get down to the real answer of who is doing what, and which lobbiests are buying the votes.... A good editorial or any type of article that gets in front of the voters will sometimes resolve the problem.... Of course, the whole population of our state is less then that of Orange County---don't know if it works on a larger scale or not?????? But I do know, regardless of who the state legislator is, once he's told that this is going in to print and the voters will read about it, they tend to "adjust" their position..... After all, the last thing a politician wants to see in print is the truth!!!!!!

I have titles for cars that I've own as far back as 25 years, I will have to get them in order. Pay the penalty so I can be legal.

Richard

Ken, I'm purposely not quoting your last post because if you choose to edit the original it won't change the quote. Since you've got your real name on the posting I'd recommend you remove/change your last post.

Originally Posted by Ken Thurm

This situation isn't going to stop here, if they are successfully at this and it generates the revenue they think it will, it will be coming to a town near you. I'm going to do as much as I can to fight this, and encourage everyone I know to do as much as possible. I'm not naive enough to think this is going to go away. They have been working on this for years and now have a base to work from.
Ken

You are right Ken. When we lived in Southern California in the late 70's we saw things that didn't hit the rest of the country for 5-10 years. California always seems to be the birthplace of everything from food fads to emission standards to laws.

I've been saying for a long time that I sense the end of hot rodding as we know it is not too far off..........I can't put my finger on why I feel that way, I just have this feeling the do gooders and money grubbers are going to have their way. Lots of people have been saying it couldn't happen because of the vast number of us who are car hobbyists and also because we have groups like SEMA sticking up for us. I think the recent developments are showing us that those safeguards were not as bulletproof as we thought.

There are too many factors working against us. Environmental, financial, civic, and otherwise. They are writing us out of existence one law at a time.

Don

Don

Okay...............I want to know who's posting under Pop's ID..............comeon, fess up!

Just one symptom of what you're talking about. Latest Rasmussen poll; 56% against, only 38% for, the current healthcare proposals in Congress...............but the pols are going to push it down our throats anyway. It'll be the same on Cap and Tax next, and whatever else they decide they need to control we serfs. Any fight for freedom left in the country ? We'll see...............

See Bob, all along we have been Kindred Spirits and didn't realize it!



Don

NOW you're really scaring me......................

Come on Bob, give me a hug!


Don

In Wisconsin, if you do not have a title and need to apply for one you can do it a couple of different ways. Say you're building a 32 ford, you can title it as a homemade car, ( not good ) a 32 ford replica ( pretty good ) or as a 32 ford. The homemade title you need all the receipts & pictures etc. The replica is pretty much the same, the 32 ford way you need documentation that you purchased the car (a 32 Ford) from someone and there was no title. All of the above need to be inspected, however, the inspections differ in that the VIN on the frame has to be verified in all cases, but, the homeade car has to met federal regs, ie emissions, air bags, bumpers etc. the replica only has to meet the standards for the year it replicates, (much easier). If you have a frame with a vin number and "some" misc. parts, you can get a title that says 1932 Ford even if you use an aftermarket body, fenders, etc. as long as a police officer verifies the frame number, in the case of the homemade or replica the police will assign a vin and send it to the state along with the verification form. The nice thing about Wisconsin is that they will look at your receipts and total up the ones that you paid sales tax on and deduct that amount from the appraised value that they determine your car is worth, so in effect if they appraise your car at $25,000.00 and you have $15,000.00 in taxed receipts they will tax you on the difference, ( $10,000.00 ) While not a perfect scenario it's really about as fair as you can ask for, given the alternatives. Bottom line is to buy a piece of marshland here in Wisconsin and title it to your new northwoods address, (yes my tongue is in my cheek).

I bought my 31 from Maine, which is a bill of sale state, on cars over 15 years old. even though I had a paper trail a mile long, the VIN could not be confirmed on the car, as it's stamped on top of the frame under the bodywork. our (Oregon) inspecting cop issued a new VIN for the car, but it remains a 1931 Ford (which may help explain why there are more cars registered than were built). he was, however, nice enough to explain that if I ever had the body off the car, he could inspect and verify the original VIN and re-issue the original VIN for the car and change my title back yet again.
As to the Californicators to my South...... I own an outdoor power equipment business in Oregon. the California air resources board (CARB) has been mandating emission rules for power equipment in CA for many years now. the problem for me is that the EPA has basicly stated that they can't afford to study the OPE (lawn equipment) emission "problem" themselves so whatever CARB decides to do in California, the EPA simply mandates as law for the rest of the country.
I suspect the same "logic" has, or will soon, hit the DMVs.

Cheers,
Lotsa

Hey Ken. Hang in there through this. I know you are thoroughly frustrated with this ordeal, but don't let it diminish your passion for the hobby. Take care

Thanks for all the contributions, I need to just calm down and see how this thing unfolds. It's just disheartening When something likes this is put into law, and something all of us is passionate about. I thoroughly enjoy building cars, it's calming to me, after a day at work it just relaxes me. I guess I just have to change how I do it, but sometimes I'm resistant to CHANGE.
I'm done whining.
Ken

Hey Ken, I have an idea. Ship all your 32's to me and we'll keep them safe in our shop so when you come to visit you can drive them with no worries about any adverse laws. We'll need the keys too, in case we need to "move them around the shop."

You might be right, this California thing might not shake out as bad as it seems. After all, you guys have had fender and emission laws out there for years and you know how well that worked out. Keep building them Ken, we need the bar raised to where you put it on every build.

Don