Thread: broken straight axel

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I have a new Magnum Ductile Iton axel, 5" drop, had it chromed, its sitting in my closet waiting for assambly on my car after paint. Then all the sudden I run across this on a Volksrod forum. Not I am aprniod of running it. They guy said it was his first time out with the car, and its wrecked now. Now what do I do, run mine saying his must have been a bad axel, or go buy a forged axel. I am running a blown bbc and this was on a bug. Lots of these axels out there just scary.Anybody heard of this before?
The last pick is of mine.

Here is what the guy said happen.
Gentlemen, my name is Lonnie Gilbertson, I built and own the Fire Bug. I appreciate and am humbled by the concerns expressed here. I am 65 years old and have been building cars all my life. (check me out at Lonnie's Place.com). I want to share the truth in hopes that I can prevent someone else bearing the grief that befell me. I took crap from my V8 buddies when I started to build my bug, however, I remembered the 1835 in my Dune Buggy I did in the 70's and knew the potential. Being an old Hot Rodder the early Ford straight axle kit by Speedway appealed to me, so I bought a 1975 standard Bug and was on my way. I will be happy to share the build with anyone that needs information. But for now I will skip to taking my 2332 cc 091 bus transaxxle Hot Rod Fire Bug to the Portland Roadster Show. At shows end to the amazement of several people I drove it home. I left the show floor all smiles by the time I got home I was all frowns. The car was un-drivable. To keep the car between the curbs was a major undertaking. In analyzing the problem, I discovered that sitting on the ground I had a normal 1/8" toe in, I could jack the car up at the perch bolts and it wold change to 1/2" toe out. At this point you might think bump steer, however, lifting at the perch bolds induces no suspension movement. The problem was axle flex. I could measure from the frame to the center of the king pin, jack it up to take the weifht off the tire and the king pin would move out 1/8" plus. This on a car that weighs little on the front compared to the V8 this setup should carry. With my experience it did not take long to figure out the steering set-up Speedway said to use would not work. I bought a cross steer rack and pinion and set it up in a traditional Hot Rod style. In an unconventional way I built my own steering arms and hooked everything at the top of the spindle. Thinking I might have created my own problem I bought Speedway dropped steering arms and moved the tie rod to the bottom of the spindle, like it would be stock. The net result was 1/4" tow change instead of 5/8" with the tie rod on top. I called Speedway and was told that I bought an early kit and all their early kits were junk, they have done a re-desigh to correct problems. I told them I had corrected the problems, however, I had trouble with axle flex, they told me to call the Manufacturer, it wasn't their problem. A call to the Manufacturer put me in touch with the owner he was very interested in helping me fix my problem. He suggested different alignment settings. Changing to his suggested settings the car semed to settle down. On Friday evening I test drove the car and had a friend do the same, although it was not perfect it seemed safe. Five O'clock Saturday morning I left my house by 5:10 am the Fire Bug was destroyed. A friend that was following said that it looked like the car dropped on the right front and left the road. From the drivers seat the Bug took a hard right, in trying to steer left nothing happened, I impacted a mail box, an oak tree, and a telephone pole. With cross steering the right front is the master and left the slave. If the right becomes disconnected you have no control of the left. It happened so fast I can't tell the order of events the only facts I know are1) it is a 5" drop cast iron axle,(2) The king pin boss on the right front is broken in half. (3) The axle is broken in half 2" inboard of the perch bolt. (4) The heavy damage to the right front wheel is on the inside as if it was turned hard right on impact. (5) I could not bring the car left once it took off right. (6) A friend that was following said it looked like the car dropped to the right before it left the road. I will never! Never! Ever run a cast axle again. On a personal note admit-tingly I am a Sunny Day Driver, however, I do not own Trailer Queens. I hope this helps someone. Thanks for letting me express myself. This is the first time I have ever posted anything to any site. I hope this will get read and not lost. Thank You,
Lonnie

Wow Lonnie; atleast you are here to tell everyone what happened.
Thanks for the tip on cast axles, and welcome to the site.
Glad you seem to be alright, beside being out of some money.
Kurt

Originally Posted by vara4

Wow Lonnie; atleast you are here to tell everyone what happened.
Thanks for the tip on cast axles, and welcome to the site.
Glad you seem to be alright, beside being out of some money.
Kurt

Not me Story from another site, just dont know it I should run my cast axel or use it as a wall hanger

We've had some discussion on this particular accident on this previous thread; http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...ydrogen&page=4 beginning with post #53.

You may want to read over some of those responses in your search for an decision. Chrome plating of suspension pieces has been a LONG running issue and I'm surprised at how much of the other discussions of this failure avoids that knowledge.

I wonder if Speedways axle was that cheap Chinese junk??
As when chroming sometimes the metal will get Hydrogen Embrittlement & I would bet that is what happened to the axle.....joe


Damn Bob your quick & it seems we were thinking about the same thing.....

Originally Posted by TooMany2count

Damn Bob your quick & it seems we were thinking about the same thing.....

Great minds Joe......great minds...........

Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

We've had some discussion on this particular accident on this previous thread; http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...ydrogen&page=4 beginning with post #53.

You may want to read over some of those responses in your search for an decision. Chrome plating of suspension pieces has been a LONG running issue and I'm surprised at how much of the other discussions of this failure avoids that knowledge.

Thanks, I alwaiys look before I post but I must have missed it.

Originally Posted by TooMany2count

I wonder if Speedways axle was that cheap Chinese junk??
As when chroming sometimes the metal will get Hydrogen Embrittlement & I would bet that is what happened to the axle.....joe


Damn Bob your quick & it seems we were thinking about the same thing.....

Was a magnum he says, only company that makes a 5" dropped beam.

Another useful piece of knowledge lost in some of these discussions is that of ductile iron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ductile_iron

As far as I recall, both Magnum and Super Bell use ductile iron for their axles. Both have been in business for decades, sold many thousands of axles, and have a published failure rate that is VERY low. That's not to say we consumers shouldn't be ever vigilant, but it also says that their real world performance history shouldn't be ignored either.

Thats some scary stuff for sure.
Kurt

Been runnin Magnum 5" axles since Victor started sell 'em
Probably have bought over a hundred of 'em.
Never had a failure.

Originally Posted by DA34GUY

Been runnin Magnum 5" axles since Victor started sell 'em
Probably have bought over a hundred of 'em.
Never had a failure.

Thats what got me wondering, they have been doing it forever. I have a magnum 5", just recently had chromed, a shop that has been chromeing forever, old spanish guy, but he knows nothing of Hydrogen embrittlement. Would you run my axel after seeing that, Just parnoid because I have alot in a car I am about to finish and hate to see it wrecked over a defective axel. What percentage do you think of axels that suffer from HE issues? Whatch mine be other 1 %

Originally Posted by PRO53

.........., a shop that has been chromeing forever, old spanish guy, but he knows nothing of Hydrogen embrittlement......

Not very encouraging, this stuff isn't new, nor should it be unknown to a quality plater. It's probably not a "guarantee" of failure, but not very reassuring either. How lucky do you feel?

Here's some more to ponder: http://www.finishing.com/1600-1799/1747.shtml

If you do a web search by "chrome plating and hydrogen embrittlement" you'll find much more to ponder.

Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

Not very encouraging, this stuff isn't new, nor should it be unknown to a quality plater. It's probably not a "guarantee" of failure, but not very reassuring either. How lucky do you feel?

Here's some more to ponder: http://www.finishing.com/1600-1799/1747.shtml

If you do a web search by "chrome plating and hydrogen embrittlement" you'll find much more to ponder.

Yea thats what I am talking about, most likely I am out about 800 in a chrome axel I am going to hang on a wall because I am unsure, Does HE happen in forged parts?

there were clues leading to this failure that went uncorrected---the ill handleing, the toe in issues,---they should of raised an eye brow to something beyond a different toe setting--

the king pin area likely failed because of the method and quantity of material removed to get the chrome out of the king pin boss, the tapered bolt for securing the kingpin was over tightened causing the fracture--when the king pin boss failed the car was out of control--this led to further damage breaking the axle at the perch area---
Axles mounted like that with split wishbones need some rubber ends on the links to allow for a little flex/bind issues--the use of hard ends/heims will put the axle in a very high stress every time it moves in any direction