Thread: Steering Box Question?

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This is probably a dumb question, but on manual steering boxes such as those from 40's what does one put in the box for lube? The box I have appears to just have some very old, (Original), grease. I don't have any shop manuals that even have manual steering in them.

Thanks
Charlie

I read once that early Ford boxes used something like 600 wt oil, but try to find that stuff anywhere. So I just fill the 56 Ford pickup boxes I have with 85-140 wt rear end lube. It might not be the right stuff, but it has been in my 27 for over 20 years and seems to be lubing it ok.

I considered putting a grease gun in there and filling it with grease, but haven't seen the need to do that yet.

Don

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

I read once that early Ford boxes used something like 600 wt oil, but try to find that stuff anywhere. So I just fill the 56 Ford pickup boxes I have with 85-140 wt rear end lube. It might not be the right stuff, but it has been in my 27 for over 20 years and seems to be lubing it ok.

I considered putting a grease gun in there and filling it with grease, but haven't seen the need to do that yet.

Don

Thanks Don, Yes I suppose 600wt + 70 years = thick sticky paste........
After I posted this I found something where some guys are using a mix of gear oil and grease, and some use cv joint grease. But I had no idea what was originally in there or what would be best to use. I think I'll grease all the parts when I assemble and fill with gear oil.

There's not much mystery to 600w, and equivalent oils are still available (steam cylinder oils), though you usually have to go through a re-packager to get quantities less than 5 gallon. That being said, Pop's 85/140 gear oil is similar in viscosity, though the additive composition is different. Multi-purpose gear oil that carries an 85/140 grade typically has sulphur-phosphorous (stinky stuff) that can attack some yellow metals (e.g. certain brass).

Greases are lube oils with thickener added (lithium, calcium, sodium etc......soap compounds), typically 10% thickener, 90%oil and additives. Main reason to use a grease is if the sealing of the compartment is weak. If you've got good seals the grease doesn't do anything better than oil because it's the oil in grease that does the lubricating, not the thickener.

You'll go nuts (a shorter trip for some than others ) reading people's beliefs online about what's "correct" (lots of home brew concoctions), especially when they don't (won't?) comprehend the above info.

While I was redoing my 27 I decided to try to fill the box with the 600 wt stuff and went to NAPA. I figured they would be a better shot than AutoZone type stores. They looked at me like I was from Mars and said they had never heard of the 600 wt stuff, so maybe as Bob said it has to come from a specialty house.........maybe some that deal with heavy equipment?

Don

Just a couple points then, first, the w behind the 600 originally meant "whale oil" (as an additive). Before it's use was banned whale oil was used in the presence of water (steam) as it would emulsify with the water and continue to lubricate. Using the word "weight" with lubricants drives people who know lubrication batty because there is no such reference in the world of tribology (as regards viscosity). It's one of those common usage things that has persisted, but is really meaningless. Not a shot at Pops, just reference.

Almost any of the Model A parts vendors will have repackaged 600w as hard core Model A restorer guys tend to resist change.

Thanks for the clarity Bob......... Well since I don't have a whale to squeeze I guess I'll just replace the seal, put some gear oil in it and go. If it seeps out the seal, I'll just pump it with grease. I'm pretty sure, even in my younger days, I can't crank it back and forth fast enough to make any differences in lube a real issue. As long as it's got lube I guess it will be ok....................
Oh Bob, I do appreciate the reply. Sometimes I just over think........

For what it's worth, I read on the P15-D24 forum that "Corn Head Grease", available from John Deere dealers is a good choice for steering boxes. I've purchased some of that grease, but have not added any yet. Supposedly, it will perform well, even if the steering box seal drips regular lube. My 1948 Plymouth has a bit of a leak at the steering box,, and I'm planning to give it a try.

Good tip. The box in my 27 has a slow leak too, so I might try that stuff. Thanks.

Don

You folks living in Florida probably don't have to worry, but be careful filling the box with grease if you live where it gets really cold.
A number off years back, I bought a CJ5 Jeep. Everything was OK until the first really cold day (-20F) when I promptly stuffed it into a snow bank on the first corner I came to.
The blasted wheel wouldn't turn. The PO had filled the steering box with grease and it had turned to cement in the cold. I had to clean the box out and replace it with gear oil to get it to operate when the temperature was low.

Originally Posted by Oldguy48

For what it's worth, I read on the P15-D24 forum that "Corn Head Grease", available from John Deere dealers is a good choice for steering boxes. I've purchased some of that grease, but have not added any yet. Supposedly, it will perform well, even if the steering box seal drips regular lube. My 1948 Plymouth has a bit of a leak at the steering box,, and I'm planning to give it a try.

Might look into that as well. I have a JD dealer right down the road. Thanks

Originally Posted by RestoRod

You folks living in Florida probably don't have to worry, but be careful filling the box with grease if you live where it gets really cold.
A number off years back, I bought a CK5 Jeep. Everything was OK until the first really cold day (-20F) when I promptly stuffed it into a snow bank on the first corner I came to.
The blasted wheel wouldn't turn. The PO had filled the steering box with grease and it had turned to cement in the cold. I had to clean the box out and replace it with gear oil to get it to operate when the temperature was low.

See another thing I hadn't thought about. In central Texas it doesn't get that cold, but it does get into the 20's. Although I'm not young enough to drive a roadster in that temp....., it certainly would be a consideration for a closed cab, car or truck. Very good point......

Resto's remarks are good for furthering the discussion. Brings to mind the difficulty with "I found it on the internet.......". Info can be correct or incorrect or it depends. As an example, I was sloppy above when saying that grease is typically around 10% thickener. Greases come in grades to describe how thick they are, as defined by NLGI specs (good thing to look up for those interested). The oil component may be the same viscosity across a range of NLGI grades of a line of grease, while the amount of thickener contributes to the variety of grades. The grease most are familiar with used for wheel bearings, chassis, general purpose is an NLGI 2 grade. NLGI grades range from grade 000 which is oil with almost no thickener to grade 6 which is a solid block at 60f. The JD cornhead grease above is a grade 0, which is very soft, softer than the "normal" grade 2 most are familiar with. Could be resto's jeep had grade 2, but who knows. And following hobby car guy recommendations might work fine since their cars don't normally get used in very cold weather so don't experience issues caused by low temps. Likewise, the example Pops put up with the 85w 140 tells us that it is likely a multi-grade, the w meaning it was tested for low temp viscosity (the w standing for winter [yes, NOT weight]).

Bob, how would synthetic rearend lube (75-120) work? It wouldn't attack any brass or rubber parts.

Wing, I wouldn't expect any of the lubes mentioned to bother elastomeric seals. As for the brass, it's a function of how agressive the EP additive is. Most of them out there probably wouldn't be a problem, but that's not a universal endorsement. As for viscosity, it should work fine if the seals are good.