Thread: '38 Ford deck lid vs 37 Ford deck lid

Tweet

Originally Posted by 34_40

I wasn't referring to this car! Most of the others were Cougars and Mustangs and I just never "got into" the body work side of cars.

The name Martin is what caught my attention. While I didn't use a lot of their tools, I knew sections of their catalogs by heart when it came to conveyors / shafting / bearings when I maintained incinerators.

And I always thank you for the pictures. I was just reminding you that I'm learning and am very interested in your project, and I wish to see how you get yourself out of this mess!

It's ok, Mike, I was just being ornery and giving you some crap!

I totally appreciate you interest and support in my project and if you're into praying, I could use a few of those, too!!! Will keep you guys posted on the progress complete with pics.

Originally Posted by randyr

It's ok, Mike, I was just being ornery and giving you some crap!

I totally appreciate you interest and support in my project and if you're into praying, I could use a few of those, too!!! Will keep you guys posted on the progress complete with pics.

Pile it on brotha!!! Pile it on!! And the appreciation part is a two way street! I gotta say thanks Also!

So, speaking of Martin hammers.....you guys have seen pics of what I'm up against, so if I was going to allow myself to buy only 2 hammers (I already have several dollies), which 2 would you recommend would be best for me? Body Hammers and Body Picks

I've also ordered Frank Sargent's book on metal bumping. Perhaps I can beat out a few dents with that....

153G and 156G would be a couple good hammers to start with. Like anything else, once you get the basics you always want more!!!!

Ok, I just posted this on my other thread but since it applies more to the trunk lid/tail pan issues, I'm reposting the comment over here:

Dave (IC2) suggested I bite the bullet and spring for the EMS replacement tail pan/tool compartment.

I got a "best price" quote for the tail pan & tool compartment combo for $600 including shipping. That's a big chunk of change! I also emailed the guy building the 37 on this site Stellar Antique Auto Restorations 1937 Ford Restoration because he replaced the tail pan in that car. He said that they had to split & reweld the tail pan to make it fit because it was just a little too wide. Geez! For $600+ dollars you still gotta do a lot of fabricating!

Then I look at the metal work being done by Dave Seversen, 123Pugsy, that new guy MP&C, Charlie and a bunch of others who work miracles with sheetmetal, and think maybe I should try smoothing this one out before I plunk out $600 for a repop. Heck, maybe I could even cut this one out, rework it and weld it back in since it doesn't appear to be rusted. There is lead work on each side of the pan, which may be from the factory, I'm not sure.
Thoughts?

Randy, it's just sheet metal..... it can be repaired or replaced. Pounding the dents out will cause a lot of stretching, but that can be dealt with also. Or, here's another alternative.

If it were mine, I would consider leaving the outside flange, then coming in about 1" to the flat area of the pan and cutting it out. I would then make a very precise pattern with posterboard, transfer this to 20ga. and cut it out and weld it in place. Careful welding and some grinding would have you a new panel with minimal filler.

Or, make a template of the tail pan out of 3/4" plywood, then another piece of 3/4" cut 1" smaller all the way around. Sandwich a piece of 20 ga. inside these two, clamp them together and form a new panel. This is called hammerforming, and old sheetmetal working method.

No way I'd give some company that much money for a new one, then have to mod it to make it fit!!!! So loose of tolerances when these old cars were built, never yet seen a re-pop panel that fits correctly!!!

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Randy, it's just sheet metal..... it can be repaired or replaced. Pounding the dents out will cause a lot of stretching, but that can be dealt with also. Or, here's another alternative.

If it were mine, I would consider leaving the outside flange, then coming in about 1" to the flat area of the pan and cutting it out. I would then make a very precise pattern with posterboard, transfer this to 20ga. and cut it out and weld it in place. Careful welding and some grinding would have you a new panel with minimal filler.

Or, make a template of the tail pan out of 3/4" plywood, then another piece of 3/4" cut 1" smaller all the way around. Sandwich a piece of 20 ga. inside these two, clamp them together and form a new panel. This is called hammerforming, and old sheetmetal working method.

No way I'd give some company that much money for a new one, then have to mod it to make it fit!!!! So loose of tolerances when these old cars were built, never yet seen a re-pop panel that fits correctly!!!

Thanks, Dave! I like those ideas and they are definitely worth trying knowing that if I totally FUBAR it, I can spring for the repops.
My big question with cutting out the "flat section" of the panel is that there really isn't a flat section. It's curved both vertically & horizontally all the way across. I would have to recreate that curve in the wood I'm using to form the new panel, right? I'm not sure 3/4 plywood would be thick enough to do that....

Might have to use multiple layers glued together and sanded to the correct contour. Time consuming, but it works. Your top piece could be like 3/8" plywood. With a bit of water and lots of clamps it will conform to the template and sandwich the 20ga. in between....

As you're fitting the plywood template to the opening, remember to leave a gap between the template and the car to allow for the new metal to be hammered over the edge of the form.

Or, easier yet. Just forget hammerforming the part bent over on the edges of the tailpan, form a sheet of 20ga. to the correct dimension and radius, weld it in solid and have a seamless tailpan on the back.....

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Or, easier yet. Just forget hammerforming the part bent over on the edges of the tailpan, form a sheet of 20ga. to the correct dimension and radius, weld it in solid and have a seamless tailpan on the back.....

Can you explain this one a little further....I missed something. Thanks

Dave S - think what Randy is looking at is not only a compound curve, but curves in multiple directions. Without a decent template, even an old rusty one, gonna be tough. I've stood in back of a lots of '37s as it has always been my favorite '30s Ford and have seen some that in my mind are 'wrong' - and it just might have been that tail pan. I'd probably make up either a straight trunk floor or weld up something close as that tool box is outa sight, outa mind and just do the tail piece. I'll see if I have photos tomorrow when I get back to the desk top 'puter with my stash of photos and maybe I can find a good rear view for a comparative look.

37 tail pan.jpg

Just cut out the old tailpan and make all the edges on the car straight, then make a template out of posterboard, transfer it to some 20ga, and cut it out. Form the radius' over a suitably sized round tube (I've used everything from a welding tank to the light pole in the alley), then butt weld it into place and you'll end up with a seamless back end on the car. For strength, you would also want to bend the bottom 90 degrees to the inside, or leave the bottom edge long and wrap it around a piece of 1/4" round tubing.... Could even get creative and french in a license plate mount, or cutouts for you tailpipes...... Stock is boring anyway!!!!!

Originally Posted by IC2

Dave S - think what Randy is looking at is not only a compound curve, but curves in multiple directions. Without a decent template, even an old rusty one, gonna be tough. I've stood in back of a lots of '37s as it has always been my favorite '30s Ford and have seen some that in my mind are 'wrong' - and it just might have been that tail pan. I'd probably make up either a straight trunk floor or weld up something close as that tool box is outa sight, outa mind and just do the tail piece. I'll see if I have photos tomorrow when I get back to the desk top 'puter with my stash of photos and maybe I can find a good rear view for a comparative look.

Yeah, I looked at the pics Randy put up. Anyway, it's still just sheetmetal and can be formed to the correct shape......

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Just cut out the old tailpan and make all the edges on the car straight, then make a template out of posterboard, transfer it to some 20ga, and cut it out. Form the radius' over a suitably sized round tube (I've used everything from a welding tank to the light pole in the alley), then butt weld it into place and you'll end up with a seamless back end on the car. For strength, you would also want to bend the bottom 90 degrees to the inside, or leave the bottom edge long and wrap it around a piece of 1/4" round tubing.... Could even get creative and french in a license plate mount, or cutouts for you tailpipes...... Stock is boring anyway!!!!!

Thanks, Dave S, I get it now. I also assume you mean to leave the lip for the trunk seal in place and cut below it? I can figure out ways to create the radius. I need to melt the lead out of each side and see what's under there.

I've seen one with the frenched license plate but I have a different idea for the plate. Here's an example. I don't like the 39 tail lights installed like this, but the license plate looks good. I'm going to be using the bumpers anyway. In LA, I'm afraid not to have bumpers!
37wseamsealed2_1.jpg


Thanks for the help guys! It'll be a few days before I can get back to it but I have lots to think about & explore in the meantime.

284289_238680596172523_117320474975203_753004_4816489_n.jpg249274_238680689505847_117320474975203_753005_7372185_n.jpgWow I missed a lot sleeping for a few days . Randy best job is what was said separating the two panels . When Smokies Custom Auto Service installed my rear inner and outer he hurt my time more then saving it . I have to do it all over .

Fit the panel to what is there , they are not always stamped at the perfect location so adjustment may be needed .