Thread: EFI Options

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Yeah, they are spendy-=---which is why I'll probably just keep dreaming about it and run either the Edelbrock or Fast intake!!!!!!!

Here's the Inglese - Inglese: EZ-EFI® Eight Stack Systems Uses either the FAST or Holley, I think?? Noticed Hilborn used FAST, too.

Neat system with the Webber look, but I prefer the Hilborn's, too!!!

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Neat system with the Webber look, but I prefer the Hilborn's, too!!!

Yeah, me too! The Hilborn's just look RIGHT!!

Roger--I seem to have upset you a bit---sorry

The hilborn unit on the 32 --I used a fast system on it--also a computer 4l80 trans------

A couple of brief things about Edelbrock---------they aren't as you describe them anymore---they have hired a couple guys that are up to speed on tuning systems/software, but you probably won't get one of them

I have been told by more than a few auto insiders that some investment group bought Edelbrock

With EFI, there are just a small hand ful of parts/sensors that will feed whatever computer you have and what/how the system responds/controls the injectors, timing,rpm,egr,torque management, transmission shifts, warmup, open/closed loop,shift times, etc,etc,etc------

We have seen hundreds of mis applied systems, and often the car owner/builder has installed something incorrectly or in the wrong order of air/fuel events----------

there are several different tuning sources for the oem type stuff and if using aftermarket type stuff on a street rod/racer, I would STRONGLY suggest that a person go for the FAST or something similar-------

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Roger--I seem to have upset you a bit---sorry
The hilborn unit on the 32 --I used a fast system on it--also a computer 4l80 trans------
A couple of brief things about Edelbrock---------they aren't as you describe them anymore---they have hired a couple guys that are up to speed on tuning systems/software, but you probably won't get one of them
I have been told by more than a few auto insiders that some investment group bought Edelbrock
With EFI, there are just a small hand ful of parts/sensors that will feed whatever computer you have and what/how the system responds/controls the injectors, timing,rpm,egr,torque management, transmission shifts, warmup, open/closed loop,shift times, etc,etc,etc------
We have seen hundreds of mis applied systems, and often the car owner/builder has installed something incorrectly or in the wrong order of air/fuel events----------
there are several different tuning sources for the oem type stuff and if using aftermarket type stuff on a street rod/racer, I would STRONGLY suggest that a person go for the FAST or something similar-------

Jerry,
All is well, and I appreciate your comments about the Edelbrock of today. It would be interesting to get some verification of their ownership status. I guess I got lucky because I got hooked up with one of their senior EFI guys, and he's been a very big help to me on my system. I'm pretty sure that Edelbrock uses the basic FAST unit in their ECU, with their programming and operator interface. As you say there are not that many out there. Again, I have no dog in the fight, I'm not on anyone's payroll, and I was just passing on what I had been told in conversation with the guy at Edelbrock I've been talking with for the past couple of years, and it sounded promising so I thought I'd pass it along.

When using an OEM computer one has to find someone who can strip out the OEM VIN link and their built in security, right? Then the harness has to be modified to get rid of the peripherals that are not being used, and tuning software obtained to let you tweak it for your needs, right? I'm not educated in this approach, but it sounds like maybe I need to learn....

I'm one that might be considering EFI somewhere in the future and once other engine problems have been solved. While the engine is apart this winter, might just weld in an O2 bung just in case

Saturday I picked up the FAST product brochure from the Comp Cams table at NSRA Burlington. Quite frankly, as a neophyte, it doesn't begin to give me enough information to even consider this as an option. I'll do some further looking, but that Edelbrock along with the MSD systems look pretty good to me right now. Then there is the Megasquirt which will use almost anyone's' TBI assembly or even a MPI set up. These can be purchased assembled or as a DIY as far as controls. Price wise, by the time you are done, my guess is that it will start to approach the 'brand names'.

One thing that the Edelbrock system seems to have is more required 'extraneous' wiring then the MSD in particular.



Any drools seen on the fenders of this car .......

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Jerry,
Hypothetical question - If your shop were closed, you were working on a new project at home, you did not have Corey for any help with the EFI and you had a bare engine with nothing from the donor car, but you wanted EFI how would you proceed? Let's assume you have a freshly rebuilt long block, no intake, no exhaust, no accessories. I'm just trying to define what is likely a more "normal" situation for most of the guys here, and wondering how you would move forward knowing what you know. You're going to have to get the parts, install them, get it running, and then tune it. Just curious.

well Roger, I guess that a comparable point of time would be mid ninties-----I 'd had a 92 vet with lt1 and it had run on any gas i put in in, good clean pweformance, and milage that averaged 21.6-21.7 all the time i had it---with that, as i planned rRobin's 33, I got an engine/trans from a guy that dealt with the powertrains removed from Detroits test cars----I got a 96 lt1, 4l60 trans, from him----128 wires on the computer!!!!!!got a service manual, started sorting things out------------

If I had a bare long block---I'd get an intake off a factory efi and an pcm and either a factory harness or maybe one from FAST------
If the engine package is pretty well stock, only a little tuning would be required and an system such as a Diablo chip or hand held tuner would let you put in gear ratios, tire sizes, etc and adjust timing maps per selected/desired fuel ratios

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

If I had a bare long block---I'd get an intake off a factory efi and an pcm and either a factory harness or maybe one from FAST------If the engine package is pretty well stock, only a little tuning would be required and an system such as a Diablo chip or hand held tuner would let you put in gear ratios, tire sizes, etc and adjust timing maps per selected/desired fuel ratios

OK, I understand that approach and can't see anything wrong with the approach, but now let's shift to a more realistic picture for most guys looking at this option. You've got a completed car with everything in it's place, all nicely done to look great and a highly detailed engine - the high buck aluminum manifold polished to perfection, all the wires tucked into their places, everything not polished is painted for that open hood display that wows the crowd at the shows and cruises. You've been running that Holley 600 carb for three years, and you're wanting to move to EFI with a minimal disruption to what you've already done. How do you get there now? Again, not picking on you, but very interested in your thoughts.

Long time lurker here, and since I've recently waded into the EFI pool for the first time I thought I'd weigh in here (if that's ok)-

There are many good EFI systems out there (FAST, MOTEC ($$$), Big Stuff and Holley come to mind)-

I was originally going to go w/FAST, but I have a BBC (540) that I wanted an induction system that would make a statement and give me good driveability, so, I went with the Hilborn and the Holley Dominator EFI-why?

The Dominator offers the ability to control an electronically shifted automatic-I have a 4L80E in my Car (if Jake's Performance ever finishes it), and, it has the fastest processor out there right now.

I would tend to agree that sequential is better (which most all of them can do), but for most a batch fire would work very well also. I think it really depends on how much control you want with your engine-do you want to control Spark? DIS? Trans? Nitrous? Do you want drive-by-wire? Data aquisition? Are you running a Turbo? Water injection? Would you like to be able to store more than one tune?

All of this and more are available now-I went with the DIS option (distributorless Ignition System and sequential injection, which necessitated running a Cam Synch on top of a Crank Sensor)-

When you open the Box and see everything that comes with it, it's a bit overwhelming, but as you go through it's pretty cool too-it's kind of like when this Internet thing came out-I was intimidated at first, but then my inner 5 Year old came out and it got better-

Go ahead, wade in there with me (we can drown together)-just think-one day you could walk out to your Car without getting in, reach in and turn the key only to hear that sweet music, and stand there revelling in the fact that you did it yourself-if someone had told me you could do this 20 Years ago, I would tell them that they were nuts-here is a picture of my engine fresh off of the Dyno-

100_0274.jpg

What did the engine do on the dyno? Those big stacks sure do look good on there!

Originally Posted by 35WINDOW

Long time lurker here, and since I've recently waded into the EFI pool for the first time I thought I'd weigh in here (if that's ok)- There are many good EFI systems out there (FAST, MOTEC ($$$), Big Stuff and Holley come to mind)- I was originally going to go w/FAST, but I have a BBC (540) that I wanted an induction system that would make a statement and give me good driveability, so, I went with the Hilborn and the Holley Dominator EFI....

Oh man, now you're going to have Severson drooling all over his keyboard If that engine had the distributor on the other end I bet he'd be heading your way wanting to carry it back to South Dakota EDIT - SEE?? He was already typing!! Must have put Saran Wrap over the keys Dave??

Seriously, I'm very glad you waded in and gave us your experience. I've never talked to anyone running the Holley EFI, so your comments are very much welcome on this and any other subject. I've found that a lot of the companies are using Fast's processor, and then putting their spin on it with peripherals. Does Holley have their own?

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

What did the engine do on the dyno? Those big stacks sure do look good on there!

Dave,

It was run on the Dyno with an Air Gap and a 1000 hp Holley on it, and it made 775.5 h.p., and 740# of Torque (my engine guy is not set up for efi)-here is that Dyno session (btw, you can hear Harold Bettes from Superflow whistle, as he was present to calibrate the Dyno)-

100 0210 - YouTube

As most will agree, a Hilborn adds up to 10% on a normally aspirated engine and tremendous throttle response, so I think it's somewhere north of 800 h.p.-

The combination is:

-new 502 Block w/arp studded Mains
-Eagle 4340 forged Crank
-Eagle "H" Beam 4340 Rods (w/L19)
-AFR 315 Heads
-Isky Roller Cam (248/252 .680 lift 110 lsa)
-Crower Enduro Rocker Arms
-Manton push rods
-Morel Roller Lifters
-ATI SuperDampner
-Mahle Pistons
-Finally ended up with a modified B&B Oil Pan
-it had some extensive work on the Oil system-the oil pressure stayed between 64-68 psi from 45-6400 rpm

Originally Posted by rspears

Seriously, I'm very glad you waded in and gave us your experience. I've never talked to anyone running the Holley EFI, so your comments are very much welcome on this and any other subject. I've found that a lot of the companies are using Fast's processor, and then putting their spin on it with peripherals. Does Holley have their own?

My understanding is that Holley originally purchased the Software from another Company , although the processor is rumored to be theirs-what I like about the Holley is the self tuning feature-you simply install a program that is close for your engine, start 'er up, hit the self tune function, and you can watch the Tables change as the rpms
go up-watch this:

Holley Self Tuning Demonstration - YouTube

That is some strong dyno numbers! The self tune demo was fun to watch, sure does adjust the fuel tables a whole lot faster then changing jets, float levels, shooters, etc. etc. on a carb!!!!