Thread: About to (maybe) buy my first hotrod. Please school me on 1931 Ford Coupes

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I've always been a musclecar guy, but I have always wanted an old hotrod.

I'll admit right up front that my knowledge on these cars is somewhat limited. I'm not totally ignorant on them, but my specifics on each variant is vague. With that, here's where I'm at.

I've always wanted a '32 Ford Coupe. Yes, American Graffiti when i was a kid, and all that. Anyway, I have quickly determined that they have now been priced out of my reach. The reason for that is I want a steel one, not a glass replica.

Long story short, an old friend of mine that I grew up with happened to casually mention to me the other day that he has a 1931 Ford coupe hot rod, Henry Ford steel body and all. He says it's a older 1980's job, but in decent condition. Nothing exciting in it, just the generic small block Chevy with Turbo 350 trans. Corvette rear suspension. Disc brakes in front. I know nothing about frame, and details. The interior is in good shape, but dated and ugly (to me at least). Red leather in diamond pattern. Car is black, paint seems ok. Windows are terrible, tinted sort of a purple with roses etched into them, I will need to replace all of them.

What questions do I need to ask him? Is the 'vette rear suspension a good or bad thing in these cars? What's a good front suspension ssetup, and what's a bad one? What do I need to look for (good) or look out for (bad)?

I know that's short on details, can anyone take a stab on what it may be worth? Also, what are the big differences other than appearance between a '31 and '32 coupe?

Any and all info is greatly appreciated. I have a lot to learn.

Welcome to the forum. My coupe is a '33, and I've got a '32 roadster project that's ongoing. Both are glass, not metal. One thing I'll offer is that with each model change the interior room, both seat/shoulder width and leg room, increased. There is a significant difference between the '32 and '33, and from the time I road tested a Model A I know that they're smaller yet. I'm 6'3", slender build and the '32 is a very tight fit for me - knees up higher, less seat width compared to my coupe, and my roadster has a 2" stretch to the cockpit. I'd try it on for size before going too far with your analysis.

Thanks, Roger -

I'm 5'9", and about 175 lb, so while I hadn't considered the fit, I doubt it would be an issue. I appreciate the input!

A's in stock show quality form sell for 11-13k, 32's are twice that, 32 streetrods start at about 27k for glass cars, on average it always appears to me a steel bodied complete car sells for about 5 k more (even though they cost way more to build). I believe A's sell for about 1/2 that streetrodded. Both can be bought built cheaper than building yourself (but thats the fun for me)
The vette rear always puzzles many if it has a dropped axle in front, the ride quality is mainly dependent upon the front suspension so a independent rear is pure luxury & performance besides looks, but without ifs it really makes many wonder why the irs?
A's had the gas tank in the cowl, 32's between the rear frame rails.
A's doors overlay the body, 32's are flush like modern cars
A's frame are straight and fairly weak for a healthy V8 swap due to no curve like a 32, many high end A build use a 32 frame but its said to be fairly complicated for the swap.
A's tops are squarish and 32 tops are more rounded
A grill shells where shiny, stainless or nickle, 32's are paintef and end up on many a A
32 frames I am told by P&J where the only frames in history with a body line stamped in (the running boards hung underneath the rails on the 32)
Fenderwells when ran without fenders are different, kind of a beaded sun ray on the A (my poor interpretation)
All in all though I own a 32 I love a A, all the fun with less cost and I still have to take a double take when I see a rodded A to see if its a A or a deuce. Sounds like fun to me! Just don't compare cost with anything other than A's. Since there where so many A's built originally it doesn't pay to really use a glass body though they are made. I had a buddy 2 years ago basically give away a complete nice A sedan for 2k (unrestored barn car) another buddy is building a coupe rat rod A since he had a guy give him a body, a steel 32 body will set you back more than 10k for a rough shape original, closer to 15 in most areas

The Corvette rear is a nice choice. Not as strong as some others, but if the car is basically a cruiser and hot street ride, then the rear will hold up just fine and should offer a nice ride. You didn't say whether the front suspension is straight axle or independent. Personally, I wouldn't give you a nickel for a straight axle front end, no matter what the traditionalists have to say about it. They are difficult to set up right and present a horrible ride and horrible transient response compared to an IFS. This is all just my opinion, you understand, because someone will come in right behind me and praise the straight axle as the best thing since fire. If I were you, I'd get permission to drive the car hard in various conditions and see if it handles to your satisfaction. That's the acid test, does it please you or does it scare you, because no matter how slick a car looks, if it doesn't drive well, and you don't look forward to driving it, then it's just no fun and you'll be looking to unload it pretty quickly. Be honest with yourself.

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I think you guy's are a little weak on the cost of what a real steel 32 is going for. This one was on FEEBAY a couple weeks ago. Ford Other 3W Coupe | eBay People are paying stupid money for these things. Say what you will about a glass car. As far as I'm concerned I will never own a real steel 32. I just picked up this glass 3 window for my sweetie and it was half the cost and it's a running driving car. The interior is dated and it needs a little polishing but for me it just isn't worth spending a boatload of cash just because Henry made it. Just mt .02

I got a chuckle out of Richard's comment about fire..................just because I know he was there the day it was named........

There's been quite a bit said already, and all added up those comments just scratch the surface. Not trying to make it too complicated for you but there's a lot to consider. If I knew what sort of muscle stuff you were into I maybe could give you a contextual comparative. But I'll just add some more logs to this fire.

First, you're getting into this segment of the car hobby at a very good time, but also a treacherous time unless you've got money to burn. While there are still younger and newly interested folks getting in, the number of us old guys who are dying off is greater in number. That means a lot of cars are hitting the market relative to what was going on say a decade or two ago. That means you have LOTS of options, and with each passing day there will be an increasing number. So, in a broad statement, selection is high, competition is low, prices are soft as a result. Yep, there will be exceptions, and yep, you'll find those who'll argue. As support for my side of the argument I'll use a personal reference. Almost 20 years ago I got the bug to have a '36 Ford roadster. There aren't very many of them out there to start with, and lots of folks liked them. I searched high and low for a couple years trying to find a decent one to build. Plenty of false leads, a deal or two that fell through, and finally ended up building one from bits and pieces to end up with what I wanted. In the past year I've seen about half a dozen of them for sale at what I would characterize as relatively cheap, a couple haven't sold yet. It's a different market.

I'm more in line with Big Jim on the pricing stuff, though Matt isn't real far off. Ten grand=ish for a restored stock A is realistic, and if patient, could be had for less. They've taken a pretty good dump the past two years. If you could buy a stock, RESTORED '32 coupe for twice that..............dislocate your shoulder reaching for your wallet........that would be the steal of the century in todays market. Restored would value closer to $50k.......genuine '32 Fords are THE market exception as the segment shrinks........demand and availability are both high.

Dated cars are a real drag right now. As the owners (or often their survivors) are getting motivated to get rid of them. People usually have a dated car because they haven't kept up with the market for a variety of reasons. This often results in them thinking that what they have is worth just as much as a similar model that's more in tune with current market tastes. Of course they're wrong and as often happens with people, they need to go through a somewhat painful learning curve. You need to determine where you are in the marketplace, assess your skills and desires, and then be either patient to wait them out if they have your dream, or be ready to strike quickly if you are actually presented with a genuine opportunity. Good that you're asking questions first as there is a lot to learn to really know where you are in that range.

That ebay ad Jim linked is a good talking point. The asking price isn't too out of line if the car is pretty complete and not too overly rusted out. It didn't sell, likely because there was no title. Had it had a title, it may have sold. To some that's crazy money, but to a serious potential '32 buyer it's not. Well intentioned folks who aren't in a specific market slice may not give you meaningful advice would be the lesson there.

To your specific example. The Corvette rear would be a deal breaker for me personally. There's nothing inherently wrong with them, they just don't look "right" and the odds are the stance of the car is "wrong"........which to my tastes means it's too high. With most other types of rear suspension (leaf or coil over) it would be comparatively easy to adjust ride height, not with the Vette set up. Sure, the frame could be modified to replace it, but that circles back to the ever increasing market supply of alternative cars.............it would take a HEAVY discount to make it be worth the effort/trouble. There's lots more to discuss here, but without knowing your level of actual interest, and more time available to me it's not in the cards right now.

While I don't share Richards views on construction choices, his advice to drive and learn is spot on. What he finds objectionable as he noted I may see as acceptable "for a hot rod".........as long as it's not dangerously cobbled stuff. If you were really into the muscle scene you probably have a good idea of the nuance of that market segment. For instance, "why is a SOHC Ford more valued than a 400m engine?" Or something like that. It took time and study for you to appreciate that difference and thousands more. It's pretty much the same for this hot rod slice of the hobby. Lots of details make a difference........some significant, others less so. Not trying to overwhelm or discourage you, just giving some guidance. You're asking questions which is smart.........just know you've got many more to ask. We're coming into the hottest selling time of the year almost everywhere in the country. Most people, not all, wait til spring to hit the market. They think they're smart because it's "just before the season". They're mostly right, it's just that almost everyone has that same idea, so there's lots of competition for your interest. Take your time, you dream ride is out there, probably at a right price for you, and without needing to knock yourself out to get there. Let the hunt begin!

All good info, guys. Please keep it coming. For me, this is about hotrod/street rod. I'm not interested in restored original cars, they're very cool but not for me. I never thought a about the lack of ride height adjustability in a Corvette rear suspension, that's a great point. I want the car to be fast, but it'll see little if any actual drag racing. A '32 is very clearly out of the question. I only want a steel car. I completely understand those of you who have 'glass cars and love them, but its just not what I'm looking for. That leaves me with a steel 1931 as my only financial option, it would appear.

So, given what I have described above about the car, and I completely understand it's not much to go on, would $20K be out of line?

What is good/bad to look out for in front suspensions? Also, I keep reading that the '31 frames are weak. Without re-framing the car, which is out of the questions, are there some readily available strengthening kits available that will shore it up to an acceptable level?

Thanks for all the great input, I'm learning more each day. Please keep the input coming.

keep in mind most of the steel cars were rust buckets and patched up. especially ones build 30 years ago. that is why glass cars became popular. you can get into a glass highboy at the same cost of a steel 29-31 . dont let the glass thing get in your way. i would not consider a steel 32 unless it was raw steel from the pasture . the car you describe is not a 20k car . add interior and updates and you will be in the 30's fast. tires are likely 10 years old or more even if they look great . there is way more to think about with a 30 year old build . good luck with it .

I'd ask him what he wants for it, then go on craigslist, ebay google, etc.. and search for similar vehicles, that alone will educate you to what components and powertrains, old, new, highend, basic, versions of what you are interested in are going for. The best deals these days seem to be from computer illiterates, who are lazy or inherited a rod they don't have a place to keep. Craigslist sometimes can generate great deals.
The one over whelming word of advice is, if it is a project, or work in progress, be very carefull, and triple the finishing costs of your wildest imagination, as these add up fast, labor for things your not willing to do adds up very fast, and stupid little stuff like windshield wiper motors, and gauges, trim, etc, even just bolts, add up very fast. If I had to do it again, I'd look for a well built finished project(if your not sure, take it to a hot rod shop for an inspection...well worth the money) I'd drive it (like Techinspector says above) in lots of different conditions, i.e. highway speeds, twisty turny roads, speed bump parking lots, and even slow traffic) and see how it behaves, especially does it heat up when idling in traffic, does it cause noise fatigue on the hiway....
Ultimately I personaly believe you can buy a finished rod for less than what it will cost to assemble and build a project, so depending if you like tinkering and aren't in a hurry, or if you have money to burn, you can pick what level of hot rod to purchase. I think the best advice for projects, is estimate a budget and triple the time and cost and you'll be about right. Get a daily driver, that runs well, and you'll be in front of the game at the very get go.

Originally Posted by stovens

I'd ask him what he wants for it, then go on craigslist, ebay google, etc.. and search for similar vehicles, that alone will educate you to what components and powertrains, old, new, highend, basic, versions of what you are interested in are going for. The best deals these days seem to be from computer illiterates, who are lazy or inherited a rod they don't have a place to keep. Craigslist sometimes can generate great deals.
The one over whelming word of advice is, if it is a project, or work in progress, be very carefull, and triple the finishing costs of your wildest imagination, as these add up fast, labor for things your not willing to do adds up very fast, and stupid little stuff like windshield wiper motors, and gauges, trim, etc, even just bolts, add up very fast. If I had to do it again, I'd look for a well built finished project(if your not sure, take it to a hot rod shop for an inspection...well worth the money) I'd drive it (like Techinspector says above) in lots of different conditions, i.e. highway speeds, twisty turny roads, speed bump parking lots, and even slow traffic) and see how it behaves, especially does it heat up when idling in traffic, does it cause noise fatigue on the hiway....
Ultimately I personaly believe you can buy a finished rod for less than what it will cost to assemble and build a project, so depending if you like tinkering and aren't in a hurry, or if you have money to burn, you can pick what level of hot rod to purchase. I think the best advice for projects, is estimate a budget and triple the time and cost and you'll be about right. Get a daily driver, that runs well, and you'll be in front of the game at the very get go.

Yup the little $hit adds up fast. Hell I have over $800 in stainless bolts alone on my tudor.

HOT ROD BUYING CHECK LIST
This is my basic list of estimated costs when looking at hot rods, sometimes it prevents me from making stupid impulse purchases;

Tires = $500.00 to $1,000.00 (sometimes even more), look at the DOT codes (after 5 years tires are questionable, 10 years done)
Wheels = $600.00 to $2,000.00 (sometimes even more), look for bent rims, or style you don’t like
Brakes = $100.00 to $1,000.00 (sometimes even more), pedal firm and stops well, no noises, visual wear at rotors
Body work = $1,000.00 to $10,000 (sometimes even more), damage, rust or signs of excessive bondo use
Paint = $1,000.00 to $10,000.00 (sometimes even more), checking, peeling, lack of luster, or color you don’t like
Interior = $3,000.00 to $6,000.00 (sometimes even more), needs repairs, out dated or you don’t like
Motor = $2,000.00 to $6,000.00 (sometimes even more), smokes or makes noise (don’t be fooled by fresh fluids)
Exhaust system = $400.00 to $2,000.00 (sometimes even more), check for wear, rust/corrosion and leaks, or you don’t like
Radiator/Cooling system = $400.00 to $1,500.00 (sometimes even more), look for damage and cooling operation (don’t be fooled by fresh fluids)
Transmission = $800.00 $2,000.00 (sometimes even more), check for slippage and shifting problems (don’t be fooled by fresh fluids)
Suspension = $200.00 to $2,000.00 (sometimes even more), squeaks, knocks, shimmys and vibrations
Sound system = $200.00 to $2,000.00 (sometimes even more), listen for blown speakers, or you don’t like
Misc = $10.00 to $1,000.00 (sometimes even more), broken antenna, mirrors, signal lights exc

If more than two of the above are present, I start negotiating costs accordingly. Body, paint and interior are my weak areas, so I try to avoid cars that need them or negotiate it in my favor. Set a budget for what you expect to pay and be prepared to walk if it doesn’t fit the budget. And remember, it is OK to tell someone their car is not for you.

After purchase, I try to budget $100.00 to $200.00 a month for for upkeep and misc., not counting fuel costs.

So here are some photos he just sent to me. I know this guy my whole life, and if he says it runs and drives good (he does say that), I believe him. He represented it to me by phone as a nice 80's rod that needs updating, and that appears to be what it is in photos. Of course I aill go see and drive it first.

Very clearly in the photos, it needs:
A complete interior with dash
Wheels and tires
New aircleaner and valve covers (no big deal)

If possible I would sure love to remove the visor and chop it. Any idea what that would cost? (approx is fine)

All of you can probably pick out a million things in these photos to tell what is on and under the car, suspension types and frame type. Please fire away!

I think my game plan is this. I want to be absolutely fair with him, he's a very decent cool guy, and while I don'20160305_134742.jpeg20160305_135835.jpg20160305_134921.jpg20160305_134958.jpeg20160305_134717.jpgt want to overpay, I want to be fair as well. I think the fairest thing for both he and I is for me to try to determine, with all of your help, what the car would be worth with wheels tires and interior. Then, back out the cost of doing that from what it'll be worth in the end, and then go from there. The chop is something that I will have to determine if I really want it enough depending on what it costs to have done.

Also, if I wanted to go without hood and fender, what's involved in removing them? I know they just unbolt, but I'm assuming there is paint and bodywork usually involved in cleaning up where they once were?

Looking forward to your input.
Thanks.

For some reason this one didn't attach last time:

Your number one battle is going to be fighting the "I wants". Your $20k budget isn't out of line for a variety of steel hot rods, but as important as living within your means is.........buying right and not shooting yourself in the foot is even more important.

I've been told I'm blunt.......you've been warned. Unless that car is your "dream car" just the way it is I'd recommend you pass on it unless you could get it for something around $4k give or take. Yeah, a ridiculous amount of money, and an amount that would likely insult the seller, but if you wanted to take all the "dated" out of it that's where it needs to be (at best) to pencil out. Now, you don't know me from sickem........and it would take a couple hours face to face to educate you enough to convince you why that number is real.

Look above at the nifty check list 36 put up for cost guidelines, it's pretty realistic, and arguable conservative depending on the subject car (as he noted). As an example, in order to get the chassis/running gear to something not "out of date" you'd be looking at something around $8k for a roller to transfer all the re-useable components to. Then add in the numbers for changing interior, dash, probably gauges, shifter, steering column, and on and on. Then wheels and tires, exhaust, probably wiring, and who knows what else. Chop? Typical number to have it done by a pro is somewhere around $5K (not counting paint work)......oh, and leaving the visor off a Model A looks like ass.....Shooting from the hip, without an inspection, the above will add up close to what another car more like what it sounds like you might be interested in would cost ready to drive and enjoy (or at least a whole lot closer). Like I said above, it takes time to learn and absorb why the answers are what they will be..............and we still don't really know what style of car winds your watch yet.

Not so much to tear down that Model A but look at where the wheels sit in the fenders..........the track is way wide. Looks like the front is Jag independent which might explain that, and then the Vette rear thing again. Yeah, you could take the fenders off with a couple wrenches, but the stance will just get even dorkier looking. The Wabbits dash is a definite throwback, the boy racer low ball shifter, the cobby steering column install.........I'll stop. Sure this is all my opinion, yours and others can differ, but I'm back to asking "what is the style of car that makes your heart patter?" Don't fool yourself into thinking you can easily or cheaply change a sows ear into your silk purse.................unless you've got more skill and resources than is apparent at this point in our discussion.

I can critique cars all day (though I'm not as enthusiastic about that as I once was), but my best advice for you right now and for the near future is "work at figuring out just what you want for the finished product". If you don't do that first you'll be spinning wheels.........for you and anyone else.

A good learning event for you would be the Lone Star Roundup in Austin the beginning of April; The 15th Annual Lonestar Rod & Kustom Round Up - April 8 & 9th, 2016 - Austin, Texas There is usually a lot of hardware to examine and friendly folks to learn from.............think about it, please.........

EDIT: okay, at second look I now think the front suspension is Pinto/Mustang II. Good in some apps, sucks on a Model A appearance wise.