Thread: 460 Ford into 55 wagon

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Originally Posted by RayDav

The only thing I am keeping from the dash is the speedometer head. I have a new gas tank and sender and have confirmed that the sender is compatible with later 12V gauges. I will scratch build the entire electrical system.

The trans is an E4OD. And yes, I have previously put one in an early vehicle. The rear is a 3.5 nine inch with new springs. A previous owner had flipped the shackles in an attempt to maintain ride height - a standard trick back then.

I have recently gone to aluminum, triple flow radiators. This and the next four pics is how I mounted it in my Mustang.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1107207...22396698044162

I have had the engine and trans for some time. The engine is from my wife's previous 71 Mach 1 - she now has a 73 Mach 1/460. I am going to rebuild the engine. I have pretty much settled on a 4.5 inch crank because it costs so little extra.

Aluminum heads I am still considering. Besides saving a little weight I am not sure what they would buy me. This is to be my wife's "big" car, and "tour" car - I had originally hoped to have it functional for 2016 Power Tour, but that would mean too many "short cuts". She is a first grade teacher and sometimes needs to haul a lot of stuff. I also intend to put a serious trailer hitch on it. And, it will probably never see 5K RPM.

I have the parts to fab a stainless exhaust, but choosing manifolds will wait until the engine is in.

As for cost, I admit, I have traded some internet buying time for Pic-a-Part time. And I have created a separate account for this car.

You might want to save this: 6 to 12 Volt Conversion - 1955 Ford | eBay Since the 55 is pretty basic you could probably be ahead using this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-CIRCUIT-UN...VV2N9Y&vxp=mtr

It's my understanding that fuel sending units don't actually operate off 12V: they need a voltage reducer.

Originally Posted by firebird77clone

It's my understanding that fuel sending units don't actually operate off 12V: they need a voltage reducer.

A fuel gauge sender is a rheostat. This 55 unit, and everything I have worked at least up to 1990, is roughly 10 Ohms full and 70 Ohms empty. At least by 1965 the gauge can be calibrated using a number one Philips.

But first you need to adjust the tank float so that it almost touches the bottom when the arm is fully down. Ideally it would almost touch the top when the arm is full up. But that often means altering the rod length, and generally not worth the bother. It is important to know where empty is, full is not so important.

Regarding your tag line: Education is knowing what questions to ask, usually after it is too late.

Originally Posted by firebird77clone

It's my understanding that fuel sending units don't actually operate off 12V: they need a voltage reducer.

This is what is referred to in the 6 to 12 volt link I posted above: Electrical & Wiring - INSTRUMENT VOLTAGE REGULATOR, 1965-66 Mustang

the last 460 swap i did I used the mounts that came with the engine and fabbed some new frame brackets. 460 vans have rear sump pans and an oil filter casting that you can pivot around to different angle, the van oil filter casting will fit on any engine that uses the ph 8a filter. I think some Mopars also use the : Ford :filter. Some HD 460 Vans also have a factory engine oil cooler.

more thinking. when they put SBF into the 55 on chassis the mustang 5.0 convertible mounts work by slotting the frame bracket holes , one slot instead of two holes in the frame bracket. There are kits to put a 460 in a mustang fox chassis, some google time might find some mounts that would work for the mustang convertible chassis and just have to slot the holes in the 55.

Originally Posted by timothale

more thinking. when they put SBF into the 55 on chassis the mustang 5.0 convertible mounts work by slotting the frame bracket holes , one slot instead of two holes in the frame bracket. There are kits to put a 460 in a mustang fox chassis, some google time might find some mounts that would work for the mustang convertible chassis and just have to slot the holes in the 55.

Here is a shot of the late Mustang mount in a "55 with a 302: driverside02 | The H.A.M.B.

The brakes are on
https://picasaweb.google.com/1107207...38341239622322
https://picasaweb.google.com/1107207...73658104526578

The 55 will take a break for a while. It is obviously not going to make Power Tour this year. So the 65 Mustang will need to go again, and I an going to change to power, 4 wheel disk. In So Cal drums are fine. Last year we buried the brakes a couple times in a Mid West gully washer and it took a mile to get the brakes back.

Originally Posted by JeffB2

You might want to save this: 6 to 12 Volt Conversion - 1955 Ford | eBay Since the 55 is pretty basic you could probably be ahead using this: 8 Circuit Universal Wire Harness Muscle Car Hot Rod Street Rod Rat Rod New | eBay

This "55" will not be all that basic. The transmission is programmable electronic, no high power circuits in the cockpit means a relay/ fuse/ breaker bank, the alternator is two wire 3G, possible remote water pump and forced air for engine and trans cooling.

Originally Posted by timothale

the last 460 swap i did I used the mounts that came with the engine and fabbed some new frame brackets. 460 vans have rear sump pans and an oil filter casting that you can pivot around to different angle, the van oil filter casting will fit on any engine that uses the ph 8a filter. I think some Mopars also use the : Ford :filter. Some HD 460 Vans also have a factory engine oil cooler.

I actually have a rear sump 460/E4OD that I pulled from my 84 E350 when I changed to an 89 7.3L/E4OD diesel. But I am saving that for a pickup.

My intent is to use a front sump 460/E4OD.

Originally Posted by JeffB2

This is what is referred to in the 6 to 12 volt link I posted above: Electrical & Wiring - INSTRUMENT VOLTAGE REGULATOR, 1965-66 Mustang

That thing is called a voltage regulator, I don't quite know what to call it. I don't know when it was first used, but I have them from 63 to 89. They are the same unit with different mounts.

Both the regulator and the gauge consist of a bimetallic strip. Put current thru them, they get hot, and they bend. When the strip in the regulator bends it cuts off current to the gauges. When the one in a gauge bends it moves the needle. So the gauges get almost full 12 volts, but only intermittently, and so are activated by average current.

If you want to test one, as I recall, three volts - constant - will move it full scale. But in normal operation, the voltage is not constant, because the voltage regulator is slowing opening and closing. Fuel, Oil pressure, and water temp are all the same gauge, just different face.

I will not be using the 55 Fuel gauge. If I use that type it will be from a 76, because that is what I have available mostly. If I do use that gauge type I am considering an actual constant voltage regulator, because those current regulators tend to wander.

Scott Drake now shows an electronic regulator. I ordered something that showed the same picture, but they shipped a part that looked like the old parts.

Can I get some opinions on engine placement?

The album starts here.
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...q6RnRU5H47VMjT

The engine trial fit starts here.
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...4HfjkTPJD1JYwu

The 2x4 blocks at the front mounts represent a channel that would bolt to the stock pad that is on the frame, and join to the stock 460 motor mount on the engine. The block under the rear of the transmission represents a stock E4OD mount.

As it sits, if I provide a pair of channels with four holes for the front, and a removable section in the cross-member under the rear of the transmission, the engine is mounted. Move on to building a floor around it. Lowering the engine would be a lot of work, but I could possibly drop it two inches.

Please, someone give me a reason to not just leave it where it is.

We always liked to get the engine down as low as possible to aid in keeping the center of gravity as low as possible.
It can help with handling.

Isn't that enough reason??? ROFLMAO!

Life is full of trade offs. The vehicle is a 55 Ford wagon. It is being set up as a tow vehicle. And what will it primarily tow? A camp trailer on the Hot Rod Power Tour. Other than that it will be my wife's "big car". She is an elementary school teacher. Her daily driver is a 73 Mach 1/460 that I assembled seventeen years ago, and we refinished in Dec 2015.
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...Pbc7Sf7YLjplkO

The engine will be 545 CI, regular gas, and probably never see 5K RPM. Where it is now sitting, the engine is, from my perspective, a "bolt in". The front anti-sway bar is 1.125 diameter with 10 inch arms. The rear is 1.0 inch with 10 inch arms.

The camber change on compression is to tuck in on the bottom: under-steer. I have parts for a scheme that would have switched that, but some on another forum said that would offend some sensitivities, and I should keep it "traditional". So the engine and the lower control arms share a cross member.

Look at the front-on shot. The center of mass of the engine is probably about at the camshaft. Draw a triangle from the center of mass of the engine to the tire contact points. I agree, lower is better. If time and money were no restriction, how much lower could it go, and what would be the operational benefit?

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...zig53pN_VA6k0X