Thread: 71 Camaro engine choice advice

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I'm out of money at the moment and that means I do too much thinking, and our exchanges with 84 monte didn't help either. As I mentioned before, my plan was to put an LS in my Camaro and that is still on the table but here is where my mind is playing tricks on me. It's been mentioned b/f that gen 1 small blocks are disappearing from muscle cars and getting replaced with LS's at a fast rate for the obvious reasons. Well today a 16 yr old kid showed up at work after he got his 6.0 power stroke back from the shop with a 64mm turbo, larger injectors, exhaust and a tune. He was getting around 500 hp to the rear wheels. That's when it hit me, this kid's dad is an idiot, and the days of a jacked up Camaro ruling the road are over, factory cars and simple tunes are putting out numbers we used to dream of. That's when I started thinking, maybe I should leave the 350 in the Camaro. I know it's not the original block but all the early 70's stuff is still under the hood and it could be a good candidate for more of a restored look that a retro mod, which there is no shortage of. I don't think this car will get driven as much as the 53 and if it does, I will be driving it more and I don't mind carbs. I would still put on some good flowing heads, intake and exhaust, and shoot for the 350 hp mark to keep it nice and driveable. I have a 700r4 trans for it already and if I put some 3.73 gears and it would still be a fun car. Just thinking out loud, I know dollar for dollar, the ls is a better motor but that may not be my goal anymore. Not in a hurry yet but I should keep my eyes out for parts I may want. Here's a pic so you can see how its decent survivor. What say you ?

You can do a LS with a turbo for the same money as that SBC and have more power. Maybe more work, but that'd be more fun to drive IMO. But it's your car, don't listen to this fool. I see no power brakes and a teeny carb. Out with the old.

In all seriousness, you could buy a 300hp crate engine for around $1250 from jeggs or summit when they go on sale and that will be plenty for a cruiser and keep your factory AC there. That is a big feature IMO.

PS, don't worry, that 6.0 will be back in the shop soon even if it has head studs. Besides, he probably just spent a minimum of $5k for injectors, turbo, and the labor. Powerstrokes eat money quick.

Originally Posted by 40FordDeluxe

You can do a LS with a turbo for the same money as that SBC and have more power. Maybe more work, but that'd be more fun to drive IMO. But it's your car, don't listen to this fool. I see no power brakes and a teeny carb. Out with the old.

PS, don't worry, that 6.0 will be back in the shop soon even if it has head studs. Besides, he probably just spent a minimum of $5k for injectors, turbo, and the labor. Powerstrokes eat money quick.

Ya, he put studs in it, spent 6K on it. Glad to hear it will go again. I usually don't wish that on people but not a big fan of the people I speaking about. I could really go into detail but I'll just leave it at that.

I know money wise it's not going to be a whole lot different, it more of is the car too original to screw it up. ( aside from dumping the 2 barrel and adding power brakes ) So your vote is heck with the old school and in with the new. ( without a turbo though )

I looked at Summits turn key motors and I noticed they use R4 A/C compressor. If that's how their engineering team thinks, no thanks

If you keep the small block, seriously consider a retro fit roller cam. Howards has about the least expensive ones I've found and they allow you to run a stock distributor gear. I know flat tappet cams are still around, but they do have problems with modern oils. Having an engine that sits a lot makes the problem worse IMO because the oil film on the cam lobes pretty much dries up between starts and results in dry starts.

The crate engine I would go with is the L30 Vortec replacement. It's about a grand more than the cheap GM ones, but comes with Vortec heads and a roller cam. The only downside is the need for a Vortec intake and a "Melonized" distributor gear.

Of course, now you're getting squarely into LS money. The salvage yards have plenty of 5.3 truck engine/trans combos and it's very hard to do any kind of decent rebuild on a SBC for what you can get an LS for. Especially when you start talking roller cam and new heads. The power potential of even a 5.3 LS is the simple reason they're taking over. The SBC currently sits right where the Flathead Ford did in the late 50's. Don't get me wrong, I love the small block and have enough stuff laying around to build a couple of engines if needed, but probably won't.

Originally Posted by 53 Chevy5

Well today a 16 yr old kid showed up at work after he got his 6.0 power stroke back from the shop with a 64mm turbo, larger injectors, exhaust and a tune. He was getting around 500 hp to the rear wheels. That's when it hit me, this kid's dad is an idiot, and the days of a jacked up Camaro ruling the road are over, factory cars and simple tunes are putting out numbers we used to dream of. What say you ?

Mr. Spears and I were just having this very conversation. It's amazing the numbers achievable when I think of all the money I tossed into a motor to gain a mere fraction when compared to todays LS or Coyote setups. Retro is ok I guess.. but horsepower gains with a simple tuning change is just to cool!

Just like the flathead, the king is dead... long live the king.

You need different dist gear with a roller cam?

Originally Posted by 53 Chevy5

You need different dist gear with a roller cam?

In most cases, yes. Most aftermarket rollers are made from steel cores and will wear a stock cast iron gear out. Damaging the gear and the cam. Bronze gears are available, but tend to have wear problems, too. The bronze gears just don't wear out the cam. There are also composite distributor gears, but I can't comment on those.

GM roller cams can use a specially treated cast gear. The Melonized gear has a surface coating that makes it compatible with the cam core. The GM cams will also wear out a stock cast gear.

Some aftermarket cams have cast gears pressed on and can run stock distributor gears. Howards uses specially treated cast iron cores for their roller cams and can run any gear.

From the input here and the opinions of the guys at work and from the weird look from my wife when I mentioned keeping the 350 in the Camaro I think I'll stick with plan A

Hotrod46 gave you some strong advise. I always run zinc additive in my engines. Except my 7.3, International was smart and put roller cams in them. All the Cummins small engines are flat tappet. Common rails have narrow lobes and are known for eating tappets too.

This entire LS thing is tough for me. I'll spend a boat load to have a 400hp 354, but can have 800hp with a LS for less money more than likely. I keep telling myself it is supposed to be a cruiser, leave it alone. If I can get this 68 Buick in Oklahoma I found purchased, it'll get a junkyard 5.3, cheap turbo, and I'll daily drive it. Haha Once again, the train is off the tracks.

Originally Posted by 40FordDeluxe

Once again, the train is off the tracks.

That seems to be the way all these projects wind up.

I'm a bad person, I've searched and called a few places the last few months just to get a ball park idea of what I'm going to have to pay for a LS1 engine and trans setup. It's going to be about 3500-4500 depending on mileage and it's kinda weird that ebay is way cheaper than local stuff. I started thinking what would a whole 98-02 Z28 car go for? A quick craigslist search found that I can get a whole car with around 100K miles for around that 5K mark. If I get the whole car I can use the drivetrain, coolers/fans. The front seats are almost a bolt in for the gen two, mine doesn't have a counsel so I could possibly use that and who know what else. Then sell the rest as a roller or part it out. The "am I a bad person" comes in where I buy somebody's pride and joy and chop it up for parts

Seth, some must die so others can go on! LOL..

Originally Posted by 53 Chevy5

I'm a bad person, If I get the whole car I can use the drivetrain, coolers/fans. and who know what else. Then sell the rest as a roller or part it out. The "am I a bad person" comes in where I buy somebody's pride and joy and chop it up for parts

I have those same thoughts when I enter a contest to win a new Mustang or Corvette...I think, "Wow! That Coyote or LS would be an awesome setup for my '37 or my truck or countless other old vehicles that way more cool than that new one!"

Seth I’m more into the nostalgia/sleeper stuff so take this with a big grain of salt. Personally my first impulse would be to throw a mild Big Block in it.

My second choice (and the one I’d really more likely do if I was going to drive the car much) would be to use a 350 or 383 with a good set of cast iron exhaust manifolds (something like the repop Corvette manifolds by Dorman or the Sanderson’s. I’d go the sleeper look on the engine. If I went with an aftermarket intake and heads I’d grind off the manufactures logo on the manifold and paint it and the heads engine color. Then I’d either go with the stock painted valve covers and air cleaner or chrome aftermarket ones with a 307 or low HP 350 air cleaner decal.

Basically that’s the formula I used when I built my 77 Mustang II coupe. With the 302 Decal on the aircleaner (and 302 emissions decal on the stock painted valve covers) it looked so stock under the hood nobody picked up on the fact that it was really a 351W with Edelbrock heads and intake.

By the way if you do go the fist gen SB route those old A6 AC compressors are about bullet proof, they draw a bit of HP but will last as long as about anything else …..and a lot better than the R4s that replaced them.

Like I said just my 2 cents.



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