Thread: Everybody that is currently building a car...

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I found some stock front turn lenses and got them mounted. I am as ready for the nsra run this weekend. It will be new tires and start on the door window install when I get back.

I was going to start a new thread on turn signals but so far I can't figure out how to start a new thread on this new format. Anyway I am way overdue on reporting to this thread. The weather has been great here and my garage was 82 F today with the window open and I have been moving along but nothing worth a picture yet. Against the advice of the Bebops folks I sent the upper body of my 'glass 29 roadster to a paint shop along with a new metal hood from Bratton's Antique Parts for a dark red metallic coat + three coats of clear. I see some nice paint work above on that T-coupe but after all the buggering around on my '29 I dare not confirm my incompetance with a try at a paint job. The crazy plan is to drill all the holes in the Bebops floor pan and send that to the paint shop next and then I will only have to assemble/shim the body once. The Bebops folk wanted me to put it all together, then take it apart for paint and then put it together again. My "insurance" is that the paint shop is charging so much that they threw in a return visit for touch ups so If I need to trim the hood or other things there will be a last chance for the paint-fix. Anyway while the upper body is in the paint shop I am fitting the rear bumper brackets and front bumper along with the headlight bar. I know this is easy stuff for experienced body folks but I am trying to do it right the first time and I have been known to make mistakes. Anyway as you can guess I am trying for the RestoRod look with a stock (metal!) hood and long-stalk tail lights. Then I figured I ought to protect the glass with (expensive, heavy) bumpers. Anyway Brookville makes some small adapters on the rear of their frame for attaching rear bumpers, although I am not impressed with their strength. I have these mocked up ready for a final heavy duty weld but I am scratching my head on how to support the bumper standoffs with the flimzy 'glass flooor of the trunk/rumble area. I think I am going to have to add a 1/4" steel plate across the bottom of the floor and attach the standoffs with bolts up through the floor. The problem is if I add a rumble seat step and/or a luggage rack the bumper has to be able to support a vertical load of at least 200 pounds for a person to step up into the rumble seat. Then there is the headlight bar (this is a progress report, right?)! I wasted a month or more scratching my head as to why the front fender braces stuck out 1" from the underside of the front fenders; I thought I had the wrong brackets for a '29. Well it turns out, when I finally got to the Bebops shop guy he said "trim it!". The fiberglass fenders are sufficiently thicker than the original metal fenders that the thickness pushed the stock brackets out to the side. Now that I have cut 1" off of the end of the brackets the headlight bar fits OK, finally!

Now for the question. I really like the little turn signal lights from Mr. Roadster but I don't know how to attach them to the bottom of the headlight nut at the bottom of the bar. Then what is worse I forgot I need rear turn signals too and I don't really see where I can put them since the tail lights only have two filament bulbs, just running lights and stop light. I am looking at some restorer turn signals from Brattons which fit into the slot between the bumper bars but then how am I going to hide the wires out to the bumper? Can some of you tell me how you solved the problem of the turn signal lights? I would like to use the little Mr. Roadster lights but I can't see how to mount them, suggestions?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

The rear turn signals should be no problem, if I am reading your description correctly. Do your bulbs have 2 filiments? One for taillights and one for brake lights? If so, all you do is connect your brake lights through the turn signal switch, and when you flip the lever to one position or the other, it just pulses the signal going to that brake light, and makes it flash.

I am running '47 Chevy lights on my '27 with the same sort of setup you describe, and it works just that way.

Someone on here will post one of those great little diagrams that I can't figure out how they find , which will probably show this better than my description. The key to the whole thing is routing your brakes through the turn signal switch.


Don

Itoldyouso, Thanks, it is very good to know this is possible, but as you say I will have to figure out how to make the wiring change. Still that essentially solves the rear signal problem and now I need someone to comment on the front signal lights. I can always attach them to the front lip of the fenders but the problem then will be how to hide the nut on the other side. Overall I like the way some folks add the little Mr. Roadster lights to the nut on the bottom of the headlight fitting. Maybe one of those long sleeve nuts could be used to screw onto both the bottom of the headlight and the turn light, but that supposes a hollow shaft of the headlight bolt. Another dumb looking option would be to drill a hole on the top of the headlight shell and mount the smallest Mr. Roadster light on top of the headlight shell but that assumes no spatial conflict with the sealed beam inside on the top. I have always liked the type of headlight with the streamlined parking light on top from Mid-'30s cars, but so far I have not found a set and so purchased the Dietz-type chrome shells for the headlights. I hate to risk drilling through the top of these shells but I suppose it can be done if care is taken not to warp the shell. Other suggestions? Really this Forum is a BIG help to me, so thanks all!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don, every time I do one of these I have to stop and think exactly how to route the brake circuit, but I think all you do is run a hot lead from your brake switch into the turnsignal switch, and let the switch do the routing of the signals for you. I only do this every 3 or 4 years, so I forget each time, until it is time to do it again.

The turnsignal switch has various leads going into it. One of these is the lead that comes from that brake switch, one is the lead from the flasher, and the others go back to each brake light. Like I said, the other guys get and store these terrific little diagrams that will show you how to do it exactly.

As for the front, I don't think you will have to resort to putting the light on top of the headlight bucket. Someone is evidently making a fitting to do what you are describing, if you say you have seen it on other cars. Maybe Mr. Roadster can tell you?

Lets see what the others post.


Don

if you tell me what steering column you have i will get you a wiring diagram of the turn signalswitch.

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

I was going to start a new thread on turn signals but so far I can't figure out how to start a new thread on this new format.

Near the top of the home page, just above the random pictures on the link bar is the "Forum" link. Click that, choose the Forum you want to post to, and at the top of that page is a radio button that says "New Thread". Also, to the left of these boxes in a thread is a "CHR Quick Hop" box that will take you to a limited number of Forums to do the same thing if they apply.

DennyW and Lt1s10, I am using an '83 Camaro (non-tilt) steering column and I have a wiring kit for a GM circuit but it is still in the box. I rebuilt the turn signal switch and the ignition key in the column with parts from Auto Zone and I don't feel like doing it again for a tilt column. I guess I will have to use one of those swing-angle column mounts and fit one angle and let it be fixed. I do have the socket for the wiring at the bottom of the column as well as what came with the wiring kit. I got the tail lights from Bratton's Antique Parts in Md. but they have 12V bulbs; only the left tail light has the extra bulb for the license plate light but that should not matter for the turn signal. There is an original '30 Tudor down the street and I have been taking external measurements from it as well as the diagram DennyW sent me some time ago. I know you guys will come up with the right stuff and you should know that I bookmark these technical replies and I have saved quite a few of them from your past ideas. I used your diagrams for my own version of the battery cable setup with the cutoff switch between the + terminal and the starter; the wire from the alternator is not installed yet, so I have studied your past diagrams! Thanks much!!

Thanks Bob, this new page format has a few more bells and whistles than the old format.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

DennyW and Lt1s10, I am using an '83 Camaro (non-tilt) steering column and I have a wiring kit for a GM circuit but it is still in the box. I rebuilt the turn signal switch and the ignition key in the column with parts from Auto Zone and I don't feel like doing it again for a tilt column. I guess I will have to use one of those swing-angle column mounts and fit one angle and let it be fixed. I do have the socket for the wiring at the bottom of the column as well as what came with the wiring kit. I got the tail lights from Bratton's Antique Parts in Md. but they have 12V bulbs; only the left tail light has the extra bulb for the license plate light but that should not matter for the turn signal. There is an original '30 Tudor down the street and I have been taking external measurements from it as well as the diagram DennyW sent me some time ago. I know you guys will come up with the right stuff and you should know that I bookmark these technical replies and I have saved quite a few of them from your past ideas. I used your diagrams for my own version of the battery cable setup with the cutoff switch between the + terminal and the starter; the wire from the alternator is not installed yet, so I have studied your past diagrams! Thanks much!!

Thanks Bob, this new page format has a few more bells and whistles than the old format.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

don i will get you a wiring diagram for a 1983 canaro turnsignal sw. and post it tomorrow. what lights you use dont make no dif. as long as you bulbs have 2 filiments in the rear.

lt1s10, Thanks, it is really great to have several folks of your experience on the Forum. Information from this Forum has been invaluable in building my roadster. For DennyW, the color I selected for the paint should be close to the picture of a white '29 roadster you shaded in as maroon over a year ago. Who knows, maybe I will eventually get the car running and then I would like to at least visit lt1s10 and Henry Rifle on this Forum who are within a few hundred miles of Richmond, but I think that will be next year, unless the wiring is real easy, HaH! Who is the Forum member who always signs off saying: "It will take twice as long at twice the cost!", so true! So far almost all the shiny stuff I have bought is stainless, thinking that modern chrome plating is plagued by environmental regs, but my oh my, the cost of stainless bumpers! At least they won't rust or peel.

Don shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don, FYI you only need 3 wires to the rear of the car unless you are putting in back-up lights. One for left stop/turn signal, one for right stop/turn signal and one for tail light/license plate. If memory serves me right you are going to run an automatic which will require a neutral safety switch and in many applications the back-up lights are wired through it.

DON, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE THis ANYMORE simpler than this, but on most american cars the brake lights and turn signals work through the turn signal sw. brakes and turn signal using the same wires,so all you would need is the set up like NTFDAY is talking about, but the 1883 camaro don't work like that, so if you use that turn signal sw then you gonna have to add 2 more lights on the rear. the brake lights don't go through the turn signal sw on that yr. camaro. the way you're are doing it the least lights you can get by with on the rear is 2 light for your turn/stop lights (2 bulbs each) and 2 lights for your park lights. it would take 4 wires to wire it that way. i took the wiring diagram that i had and tried to make it a little simpler than the factory drawing, but the color codes should be the same.

Thanks Mike for your effort, I will have to study the situation more. It would be nice to just use the brake light but man o man that multi-plug at the bottom of the column is a doozy! Today I worked a lot on installing the rear bumper brackets and what I have so far will NOT support my weight to get into the rumble seat so I am working on some heavy metal brackets to weld in some additional strength. The brackets from Brookville fit cleanly but even after I weld them they are only 1/2" wide where they are welded to the long bars that hold the heavy bumper so I need to beef it up somehow OR else just discourage fat women from sitting in the rumble seat. This also brings up the idea of an extra brace under the right rear fender for the rumble step plate. Maybe if I reinforce that and don't put astep plate on the bumper I can just get a few brave souls to step into the rumble seat from the running board using the fender step plate only. Actually I only wanted the rumble seat for my grand kids in a parade anyway so maybe all I need to do is pick them up and put them in; if they are too big to pick up then they are too big to sit back there. I only had one good ride in a real rumble seat (it was a '30 roadster, I think) on a summer evening and it was really neat, but I was so young then that I didn't mind a few bugs in my eyes and teeth! Probably my rumble seat area will just get filled up with extra gas, tools and maybe one of those little spare tires anyway. Mike I appreciate you looking into this but now I wonder what to do as to keeping the Camaro column?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Mike brought up something I hadn't considered. Some newer cars, like your Camaro setup, have a seperate turnsignal light in the rear, rather than just interupting the brake light, as on older cars. I only play around with the old stuff, so I had forgotten about this.

I wonder if some companies like Ron Francis or others have developed any relays or whatever to convert the seperate light system to the older system? With the popularity of using new tilt columns in older cars, I wonder if this might be available? Maybe worth a call to a few companies who specialize in this stuff.




Hey, I just had a thought. There IS a convertor to do this. In marine stores and trailer supply stores, they sell a convertor that is designed so if you have a car that has seperate turn signal lights (like your column setup) and you want to tow a boat trailer that has the turnsignals in with the brake lights (like the lights you want to use) you put this convertor in between, and it somehow routes the signals to the brake light portion of the trailer lights.

As I see it, there is no reason you couldn't install one of these between your column and your rear lights, and accomplish the same thing. After all, the convertor doesn't care if it is feeding lights on a trailer or on the rear of a car, right? Maybe this would save you from having to scrap your Camaro column.

These convertors aren't expensive, either. My Son installed one on his Honda so he can pull our utility trailer, and it works great. This might be your out, on the rear, and on the front you are going to run seperate lights anyways, so it wouldn't matter up there.

Don

"the 83 brake lights dont go through the turn signals"
so there is no need to conv. it over. the brake lights work by themselves.
don ,you need to look at the color codes thats on the wires(in the column) you have and the ones i gave you. should be about the same. the diagram i gave you is the way the 83 camaro is wired. you can wire it that way and add brakes lights on the rear or change the column so the brakes goes though the turn signal switch, and just use 2 lights on the rear. Itoldyouso and denny look at the diagram close, this is the way the car is wired. the brakes by-pass the turn signal sw. its made like most "ricers"