Thread: Front and rear end help?

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Well I recently bought a 48 Chevy Coupe which most of you know, but I need all the bolts and ball joints for the front end of this thing. When I bought the car the guy said they were all in this huge tank thing with a million other rusted bolts and I can't seem to find em and if I did they would be no good so I need to get all new bolts for EVERYTHING for the front end like upper and lower control arms, etc. The front end is from a 1979 Z28 Camaro so it's not a 48.
Also the same with the rear end.... I am not even sure what the rear end is but I should find out this week but it's got leaf springs on it and I was wondering if there is a way to convert it over to coil overs or something and rid of the leaf springs? I am thinking the rear end is a 55 Chevy ( I know for sure it's a GM/Chevy rear end but not sure what year). A lot of people said it's a 55 so that's what I am guessing for now. It has 373 gears in it right now, but say I am building my chassis and everything to be able to take about 500 HP and a 700r or 400 turbo tranny, then can I still use that rear end if it's a 55? If so then what are some upgrades that I should add to it? I know it's a handful of questions but I am focusing just on the frame and all right now and need to figure this out so I can order my parts next week and start working on this thing.
One more thing I almost forgot, the frame sits pretty high when everything is in it's place, how can I get it to sit lower? I know I need to have engine clearance and the whole 9 yards but as of right now it's higher than it needs to be. If I get the coil overs then should I just adjust those and lower it that way or anything else I should do?
Thanks a ton in advance. If you got any ideas on the suspension or think I should do something else then what I have mentioned that I wan't to do then feel free to give me tips or your ideas on what I should change.
Thanks again!

Slow down, dude. You can't do everything at once. One of the most important parts of a project is planning. Find out everything you can about what you have before you start buying parts. Then decide what kind of car you want. Custom? Retro? Pro street? Cruiser? Once you decide that, start scanning rod magazines for cars that look like your dream. See what folks have put together. Make a list of the things you need to do and the parts you need. Then decide which order to attack each item. If you don't do this up front, you'll paint yourself into a corner and spend a lot more $$$$ than you ever dreamed.

First timers usually start by trying to get the biggest, hairiest, badass engine they have ever read about. Do you realistically think you're going to be able to put together a 500+ horse engine? That takes a really radical small block, or a pretty hefty big block. Can you afford it? Six thou for an engine and another $1,200 - 1,500 for a trans and converter.

If you're going to do anything with the rear axle, you need to find out what it is. Assume makes an . . . well, you know. You can certainly replace the rear leaf springs with coil-overs, but it isn't cheap, and it's going to take a bunch of cutting and welding. You can expect to spend $850 - $1200 for a kit unless you can make all the pieces yourself. Leaf spring kits are less expensive, and several manufacturers make them.

Lowering is a matter of the correct spring length and rate (front and rear) and the coil-over mounting/lowering blocks (rear). If you lower the front, you need to be careful that you don't mess up the front suspension geometery. If you lower the rear, you have to make sure that you don't have the axle banging on the frame at every bump.

Think it through before you write a check. You'll be glad you did.

Thanks Henry... I don't plan on having a 500 plus HP engine, lol I am just saying that I would like to build the chassis or frame as if I would have that much power so I don't have to go back later on. What I plan on making this car for is for street and strip. It will be an everyday driver for a while and I will take it to the strip on the weekends for some fun. I am not just going all out on this thing... well trying not to at least but right now I am just worrying about the frame, front and rear end and do one thing at a time. I really wan't to just get the front end done at the moment... Any ideas on that then? Also you said about the geometry, how would I know what to set it at and all? I guess I will just take the frame down to pieces and worry about just the front end then. Like I said, it is a 79 Z28 front end everything original... any ideas on what to do here and what kind of coil overs? I was looking at QA1 suspension but not sure....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Henry Rifle
[B]Slow down, dude. You can't do everything at once. One of the most important parts of a project is planning. Find out everything you can about what you have before you start buying parts. Then decide what kind of car you want. Custom? Retro? Pro street? Cruiser? Once you decide that, start scanning rod magazines for cars that look like your dream. See what folks have put together. Make a list of the things you need to do and the parts you need. Then decide which order to attack each item. If you don't do this up front, you'll paint yourself into a corner and spend a lot more $$$$ than you ever dreamed.
.............................


Firstly ..thats some VERY wise information Henry!
I know when i was younger and got my first hot rod i wanted to do EVERYTHING to it right off the bat and i ended up tearing the car apart...getting "stuck" without money & the proper knowledge, and then selling the car unrunning a year later.
No offense meant to you FMX by that statement just telling ya what happened to me at your age

Secondly...Glad to see you finally got a car FMX i know when i was on here last you were getting pretty depressed about not havin a ride to wrench on

far as the front end parts if its from a 79 camero then you should still be able to get alot of the parts like the ball joints,tie rods and such at your local auto parts for that car and year.

just as Henry said the most important thing for you to do right now is to sit down and draw up a game plan on what you want..what you can realisticly afford...how long it will take...do you have a place to do it where the car can sit for extended periods of time if needed...and where you will start on the car,meaning chassis-engine-body work-etc,etc...

As to lowering it..coil over shocks are the best way to do it but theres alot to consider when changing to them and as was mentioned coil over kits that come with brackets,mounting tubes&braces etc are not cheap so if you have ALOT of "fabrication' type work that you want to do to the chassis&body then to forego the "kits" and buy a 130amp Mig welder and start learning some basic fab skills might be something that would help you in the long run cost wise.

BG

Thanks BG. On the fab skills. I have a welder and have been welding for about 2 years and am pretty good at it. The welding part and welding the brackets on is no big deal at all to me and will be easy to weld. I know I sound like I am going over my head but I am just wanting to do the work to the frame and front end right now and not worry about the rest of the car. All I basically wan't to do is upgrade the suspension, a couple things to the frame to better the handling and change out the bushings and joints and that right there I just said is what I plan on doing for now. I was looking at the coil overs for the front end and looks like for a kit it will be anywhere from 440-500 bucks. I don't plan on buying everything right away, I am doing my planning right now and pricing everything that is why I am asking for help. I have a notebook with a list of everything I need or wan't to have done and I wan't to put prices to it and have a list of what I need and what I wan't and the want list I will have to hold off on until I get the car done and road worthy. I at least wan't the car to handle well and have good brakes. The engine I am not so worried about, etc right now so no need to even talk or mention about that.
Thanks for the help so far though, I know what you guy's mean and I am not trying to rush things and just say I am going to go out and buy all this stuff because I know how it's a lot of money and it will take a lot of planning so that's exactly what I am doing is pricing everything up.

Have you checked chassisworks to see if they have some coil overs that you could use with your existing 79 maro front end parts? I'd be surprised if they didnt offer a coil over that would be a "bolt in" shock for that front sub frame without having to go the kit route.

http://www.cachassisworks.com/

BG

The coil-over kits in the $400 range don't seem to include traction bars. You can install coil-overs, but you still need something to keep the rear axle in position. The coil-overs take care of up and down. You need something to take care of front-back and left right movement. My last conversion (72 Chevy Pickup) to coil-overs used Morrison coil-overs, ladder bars and a diagonal track locator. Check with Morrison or Chassis Engineering. If I were doing that one again, I would use a triangulated 4-bar.

If you want to drop the front, you can use replacement springs for a 1-2" drop. Cutting the originals is not a good idea - although most of us have done it in the past. If you go much further than that with springs, you'll mess up the front suspension geometry. In unequal A-arm suspensions like the Camaro, the lower A-arm is supposed to be parallel with the ground. If you move too much from that, you get steering problems and tire wear. It's hard to pick the correct spring, though, without knowing the weight on each front corner with the engine in place. A spring that the catalog says will lower your Camaro by 2" may not lower your car a similar amount.

On the rear suspension, coil-over kits are really adjustable. There are usually several attachment points on the lower mounts, as well as several inches of adjustment on the shocks themselves. The coil-overs on my '34 have three different mounting points, and I could have added a couple more. That gives 2" adjustment. Then the shock has about 3" of adjustment in the lower spring location. The body of the shock is threaded so that the lower spring retainer can be screwed up or down about 3". That gives at least 5" of adjustment, depending on the original mounting position. Some coil-over kits also have several upper mounting points. Check the photo.

Here's a homework assignment.

http://www.artmorrison.com/techtipstwo.htm

http://www.artmorrison.com/tri4bar.htm

http://www.artmorrison.com/compstreetladder.htm

http://www.chassisengineering.com/rearsuspension.html

I may have missed it in one of your posts, Is the motor setting in the car? That will make a big dif. on how low it sets. another way to go for the rear would be air ride.( and front) As far as nuts an bolts for the front, why don't you go to the salvage yard and find what you are looking for? You can buy replacements if you think you need them. thats my 2cents worth

Low 49. I am not too big in air rides in old cars... for something like my dad's truck that would be nice but I don't care too much for that kind of thing in an old street rod type of car like this. If it were a 50's buick or 4 door 57 or something then maybe. But yeah I looked into that too but like I said, I am not much into that. Thanks for the info though man.
On the engine question, I do not have an engine. I am trying to buy this one from a friend but his dad won't sell it but he is going to sneak it to my house so I can buy it without his dad knowing since they have tons of other engines.... Long story about how his dad won't know but the whole point is no I don't have one. I wish I did so I can do that and also so I know if I have to bring my firewall back if I put a 383 stroker in it... I think the Z28 already has the motor mounts on it.... Tomarrow I will get some pictures close up of the front end and show you the mounts and what there is there already. I was putting the control (upper and lower a arms) on today and I saw the guy had some washers and I think they call em shims on there that are square and the nut doesn't have to be off the bolt and the shims and slide right out... is that to adjust camber when aligning because the front bolt on one side has more and the other side has different amounts and some are round washers not even the right ones which are supposed to be square.... Sorry if what I just typed is kind of sloppy and doesn't make sense but I am trying to type fast so I don't forget what I am saying....
I am going to try and get all new bushings and all next week when I get some more money for the front end though. Would somewhere like advance auto parts sell energy bushings and all? I am going to try and get as many prices on this stuff tonight that I can so I can add it up and then save my money up but double of what price I wrote down.

Henry, thanks for those links as well man, I will definetely have to read all of them tonight and see what kind of info I can get out of them. I have been reading this so cal speed shop chassis book but it talks about kit frames to buy and how to put them together so far but later it talks a little about suspension but they talk about suspension for 34 Fords......

Those shims adjust caster and camber. It sounds like your front end has a less than professional alignment. It probably doesn't matter at this point, since you will have to have the front end aligned when everything is put together.

It would have been a good idea to count the shims on each bolt and replace them as they were. I'm gussing that didn't happen. How was my guess? Even with a bad alignment, it probably would be closer than pulling them out.

Long story about how his dad won't know . . .

Dads usually know more than you think they know. If you go through with this, and he finds out, you may be out both your money and the engine. I'm assuming that the son is under 21 doesn't have legal authority to sell - particularly something that isn't his. Some fatherly advice: in your hurry to get a motor, you may be assisting in a crime. Think about it.

Well...i hope i'm not considered a "old guy" ..33 yr old but FMX i have to agree 100% with henry and Richard.

Go about the engine properly and dont take any chances with a "shady deal" bud. It would not only be the "wrong" thing to do but think how bad it would be to get the motor in and then end up having to pull it back out to give it back.

I know you are excited about your car and i cant blame ya one bit i was the same way, but dont take any chances bud

BG

Well the kid is 18, it's his engine but his dad said that if he sold it to me then sell it to me at a high price. He said his dad really doesn't know much about engines at all like he can't tell the difference between a 350 or 383 or 406 or anything and that he doesn't know what the hell to do... not sure how though because his dad rebuilds tractors and all.... But yeah maybe you guy's are right, I never really thought about that and now that you said it then that would make me worry and worrying is the last thing that I need.
Henry, about the alignment, I have an alignment rack or machine (really really expensive and top of the line one this year) at the auto tech shop at school so I will bring it there and align the car when it's all done with and I get it on the road... that will be the first thing that I do so no worries there. I have been using that machine a ton lately on peoples cars so that will save me some time and money there instead of me having other people do it. I have the shims in the same way and all that they were in before.... Now I know some cars you can't adjust caster on so not sure if this is one like that. But I will get all that taken care of as soon as this thing is road worthy, I don't wan't to be messing up some nice expensive tires when I can fix the problem in about 30 minutes...

Yeah I guess I will wait the extra time and go with a 383 crate engine...
I don't really wan't to worry about the engine right now but I know that it would help me lots in setting up how I wan't the car to sit, adjustments I will need to make to set the firewall back, etc.

Good idea man, thanks a lot! I will do that for sure.