Thread: 318 poly vs a 413

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i have got a 65 plymouth fury with a 318 poly block in it. i want to go with a 413. ok now for my questions....do the transmissions interchange, i also heard i only needed to change the mounts to do the switch, do i have to keep the torque converter with the moter it came from, (heard this from someone also), i know i need to change the radiator, i also got a set of exact fit headers for the 65 also. any other info on this motor swap would be get.
thanks
Jim

It's been done, of course, Jim, but it will be far from a "drop in".

No. The transmissions won't interchange. You'll need a 727 for a 413 (or any other big block Mopar).

I'm not familiar with the radiators that came with the polys but I'd guess the hose fittings are located differently so you would have to relocate them or pop for another radiator. The manifolds won't hook up to a big block so you will need a new exhaust system. If your car has a 904 transmission you'll need a shorter drive shaft (the 727 is quite a bit longer than a 904).

I'm relying on my ever deteriorating memory for this information so I'd better shut up and defer to Techinspector1 or somebody else who knows what he's talking about......

A bit of information about 413's: The ones used in trucks and motorhomes are different in a number of respects from those in cars. The car ones are the ones to go with.

Now I've probably discouraged you completely. Didn't mean to.

Jim

I would use any Hemi except the 413, the odd ball Hemi, parts are expensive! and they don't make alot of parts for them!
Put Hemi heads on the poly motor.

Pat

"......I would use any Hemi except the 413, the odd ball Hemi, parts are expensive! and they don't make alot of parts for them!
Put Hemi heads on the poly motor......"




The 413 is an RB engine not a Hemi (chrysler never made a Hemi displacing 413 CI).

Unlike some of the other Ploy engines the 318 will not accept Hemi heads.


I would say unless you already have a 413 I'd look for a 440. If memory serves correctly the 413 would be incorrect anyway as the 426 wedge replaced it in 65. While many parts interchange between the 413/426 wedge/and 440 pistons can be extremely expensive for the 413/426 engines. There's no replacement for displacement and the 440s are a lot easier to come by.

As big tracks said you will need a big block transmission.

Well, Jim (tuckpointer74), I just looked at my response to your posting and I see that I lied to you, and I don't even know you! I told you that if you install a big block Mopar with a longer transmission in your Fury you will need a longer drive shaft, and that makes no sense. I meant to say that you will need a shorter one.

Blame it on the dementia typical of some of us geezers. I have edited the response.

Mike is right on. If you don't already have a 413, sniff around for a 440. They are pretty plentiful and are comparatively inexpensive. You'll come out ahead both powerwise and financially.

Here is a quote by a knowledgeable guy who used to check in here ("Call Me Doc") regarding the 413:

"Motorhome and truck 413 engines usually have different heads than passcar engines; they have extra water jacketing around the exhaust ports and will not accept passcar headers or manifolds. They also use a unique intake, which is not a worthwhile performance piece, and many of them had 8-bolt cranks with a proprietary converter/flywheel hub length. Plan on using only the block; virtually everything else needs to be replaced right down to the water pump housing. Put yourself way ahead of the game and just find a 440... it'll be cheaper in the long run, and have more CID in the first place."

Take a look at the thread that quote came from. You might find some of it useful.

http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25076


Jim

[QUOTE=Mike P

The 413 is an RB engine not a Hemi (chrysler neve made a Hemi displacing 413 CI).

Unlike some of the other Ploy engines the 318 will not accept Hemi heads.



I undrestand that.
They quit the Hemi in '58 and introduced the Wedge head motor in '59 till '64 when the Hemi came back as the 426 Hemi. But alot of people call the earlier 413 Hemi's.

The wedge head engine was built in 350, 361, 383, 400, 413, 440

I was thinking of the earlier poly motors.

Pat

"....The wedge head engine was built in 350, 361, 383, 400, 413, 440...."

and 426 both Street and Max wedge versions (not to be confused with the 426 Hemi of the same displacement).

Yep!

Pat

the poly heads are interesting heads i rebuilt a 277 back in the 60's.it was a stock rebuild with a 4-barrel intake and carb.the exhaust valves are on the lower part of the head the intakes on the upper part of the head. it was nicked named the"the semi-hemi"

[QUOTE=HemiTCoupe;296841][QUOTE=Mike P
But alot of people call the earlier 413 Hemi's.[/QUOTE]

Ummmm, no, I think you're the only one.

[QUOTE=techinspector1;359334]

Originally Posted by HemiTCoupe

Ummmm, no, I think you're the only one.

Why don't you go build something...Oh Thats right, you don't/can't!!!!!!!!!! All you do is tell other people what to do, and confuse them, you know "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bull shit!"

No, I'm Not the one that thinks it, I have heard many people say it over the years!

Even if it's wrong, it's on this site! --> http://www.who-sells-it.com/r/chrysler-hemi-413.html

Pat

Pat and Richard -

Sometime in the wee hours of this morning (what, exactly, is it that makes some hours "wee"?) I dug out the big pile of Chrysler stuff that fills up a whole drawer in my dresser.

I was curious about that "413 hemi" we hear tell of.

I wasn't in a position to say "there ain't no such animal" because there was, after all, a "Slant Six hemi" produced.

I didn't find any mention at all of a 413 produced with hemispherical heads.

It may be that somebody put some 426 hemi heads on a 413 block, I dunno, But why would a person do that?

The 413 RB (wedge) first showed up on the '59 Chrysler. It was then used in the '61 Plymouth.

The 413's finest hour came in 1962 when a version was sold as a drag race only option. Those were the ones with that hairy-looking big wide cross-ram dual quad intake manifold. The engine was available with either 11:1 or 13:5:1 forged pistons, a high lift long duration cam, larger port heads and high-flow upswept exhausts.

It called the "Max Wedge 413' and made 410-420 horsepower. This (413) version was dropped in favor of the 426 in 1963.

i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anybody, Pat, but I can only say that in my (mostly wasted) 76 years I never heard anybody refer to a 413 hemi.


Jim

Thanks Jim, you and I have the advantage of having lived through that period. I was visiting new car dealer showrooms on Saturdays and working at the drag strip on Sundays.

The '65 318 should have a 727 so driveshaft length won't be a problem. Back then the 904 was limited to the Slant Six,and I think the 273 in Valiants. It was about '67 before they started showing up in fullsize cars. (At least in Canada.)

Yes, they do exist, but not as a factory original engine.

http://www.stagev.com/pages/hcheads.html

Since the original 426 hemi block is available new, not a big reason to spend the cash to create a 413 or 440 hemi out of a standard RB block.