Thread: G3 Hemi in 37 Dodge coupe

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Hi, guys. I have a 1937 Dodge Bros coupe that I am starting a rod project on. I have posted several times in the "suspension" room, but now I need engine advice. I have tossed around a number of engine options, including 340 and 440, but after some (good?) advice from a guy that I respect, I am now looking at a generation 3 Hemi. To be specific, there is a 2006 SRT8 Charger for sale in the local insurance salvage auction next week. I will have the 6.1 litre hemi in it.
It appears that the dimensions of the 6.1 are almost the same as a 5.7. I had a guy send me a link to some photos of a 37 that he built, with a 5.7, and while it was tight, it looked pretty good. Does anyone have comments, or suggestions? The car has 68,000 kilometers (42,000 miles) and I expect it to sell for around $3k, more or less. There is some light front end damage, the photo shows a small puddle of liquid under the rad, but from the photos, there doesn't appear to be enough damage to involve the engine. I have not inspected the car IRL yet.

For $3k that sounds like a great deal and in my opinion that will be a great engine to have in your coupe!

It wouldn't be as powerful but for not much more you could get a low deck early hemi that would add a ton of visual impact and be eternally cool. Most on here remember the mid 80's when we awed at the crossfire fuel injection motors when they showed up in a streetrod, now you see 'em and can't help but chuckle. Do the early hemis fit? Of coarse not but that add's to the visual impact thing. New motors are only new till the newer model come out. Besides that the simplicity of a early motor makes me feel comfortable when I travel. Only my opinion, but I have a blown small block in a '32 and a early in my '37 and way more people get the wow factor with the early hemi, which one runs better?? They have no idea! I love the old dodge coupes, your doing the right thing sticking with something a little different. Best of luck

Originally Posted by Matthyj

It wouldn't be as powerful but for not much more you could get a low deck early hemi that would add a ton of visual impact and be eternally cool. Most on here remember the mid 80's when we awed at the crossfire fuel injection motors when they showed up in a streetrod, now you see 'em and can't help but chuckle. Do the early hemis fit? Of coarse not but that add's to the visual impact thing. New motors are only new till the newer model come out. Besides that the simplicity of a early motor makes me feel comfortable when I travel. Only my opinion, but I have a blown small block in a '32 and a early in my '37 and way more people get the wow factor with the early hemi, which one runs better?? They have no idea! I love the old dodge coupes, your doing the right thing sticking with something a little different. Best of luck

Thanks for the opinion, Matthyj, and I know exactly where you are coming from. An early hemi was on my list of possibilities, in fact I had one lined up. It was a 1951 (I think) 330, and the guy wanted $1400, which sounded pretty cheap, until he mentioned that it had no starter, carb, manifolds, alternator, etc, etc. In the end, that was not the deciding factor, though. The deciding factor is that I am looking for a car I can drive, any time, any place. I am not sure that a 64 year old engine, or even a 40 year old 440 would be the best way to accomplish that. I totally understand the "wow factor", but for me, it is not the prime motivator. I will likely go to some shows with it, but I am doing this for fun, not to impress others, if you follow me. YMMV, of course... As always, I really appreciate the comments.
Glen

Dollar for dollar spent, you'll be farther ahead with the newer hemi than an early hemi. There isn't much cheap for an early hemi and $3k is a drop in the bucket with one.

One of the things to consider when looking at engines that are making large HP/Torque numbers, are the number of changes you’re going to have to make downstream to safely support the power. For instance, if it’s solid, I would not be concerned with running the stock frame, (especially if you box it) with an early Hemi, 340, or reasonably stock 5.7…….once you start talking about 440s and 6.1 etc, you are starting to get into the territory of needing an aftermarket/custom frame with new steel, additional bracing and gussets etc. Then there will probably have to be a better rear end to handle it and a better suspension to get the power on the ground.

When you are talking about the older engines I’ll admit that most likely you are not going to find one in a junk yard somewhere that you can just pull out and stuff into a car and drive for another 100K miles. Ryan’s point about cost is also well made. As demand for older engines has fallen off and the parts supply become less even engines like the venerable 283 can cost more to go thru than you’d expect.

“……The deciding factor is that I am looking for a car I can drive, any time, any place. I am not sure that a 64 year old engine, or even a 40 year old 440 would be the best way to accomplish that……”

When dealing with the old engines unless you can find a (quality) recently rebuilt one, you just plan on going thru it and freshening everything up. Once you have done that, there is absolutely no reason they can’t be driven any time, anywhere (hell they were capable of driven cross country when they were new and there’s no reason it can’t be done now). A single 4 barrel and factory electronic ignition (or quality after market unit) is just about bullet proof with a lot less to go wrong with it that the electronics required for something like the 6.1 you’re contemplating (think sensors, injectors, coil packs, in tank fuel pump, wiring and computer).

I take an annual 4000 mile vacation, and have done it 3 times in my 57 Plymouth with a 60 year old 354 Hemi with no problems or worries. I’ve done it 4 times in my 83 El Camino (planning on a 5th time in a month or so) with its 44 year old 500 CI Cadillac engine. Of course both have been rebuilt and both converted to electronic ignitions (and in the case of the HEMI, a BB Chevy water pump conversion has been done and a GM alternator has been added). I currently in the process of installing a 55 year old 283 in a truck I suspect my grandsons will be driving long after I’m gone.

The decision on what you eventually end up with is of course all yours, I’m just saying don’t discount the older engines just on the basis of their age.

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And if you want to go modern-the buying of a complete donor vehicle is the way to go-get the fuel system, ignition system, wiring, alternator,starter ,guages-just the belt drive systems for early engines to have a/c, alt, and water pump, power steering are over $2000 and suck--------Just remember what vehicle and what year it was for when you go to Autozone---------

Crap!! Was I ever out to lunch on my estimate of what the 6.1 would sell for!! It turned out to be not banged up all that badly, and it got bought to rebuild. Went for $7500!!! I was prepared to go to $5000. Back to the drawing board.
I looked at a 5.7 litre hemi after I left the sale. It allegedly has 90,000 kms (54,000) miles, and looks ok. It is out of a ram pickup, 2wd, and has tranny as well. No wiring harness, but the brain box is supposed to be included. How easy are the new after market harnesses to install? The guy wants $2500 for it, which is pretty cheap, on the one hand, but on the other, it is a bit of a pig in a poke.
Back to the old engine concept, there is a 340 for sale, $1000, in need of overhaul. How much does it cost to go through one properly?
I don't know what to do, but I don't have to decide right away. I had my heart set on the big, raunchy 6.1 litre, but I am just not willing to blow that kind of cash.

Don't rule out the old motors, do you think the new generation of motors will still be getting rebuilt 50 years from now like yester years? Hard to say but with the extremely thin wall castings and such its possible the early motors will out live their modern day counterparts for rodding. Besides like I said new motors are only the cool thing till the next generation comes out, old stays cool indefinetly, thus the reason we are here talking about building hotrods and not rice burners!

I saw a guy about 5 years ago at a race track in Michigan that had a Dodge 440 with the fuel system from a 5.0 Mustang. He hat a lab top to tune it and man did that thing fly. You could go with a mega squirt fuel injection and set up fuel injection on dang near any engine from the research I have done and it will be cheaper than a big name kit. Just an idea.

"…..Back to the old engine concept, there is a 340 for sale, $1000, in need of overhaul. How much does it cost to go through one properly?......”


That’s really kind of a hard question to answer with any authority. Of course a lot will depend on the condition of the engine and how much actually needs replaced. It is possible (but highly unlikely) that it could get by with a valve job, cylinder hone and new rings and bearings…….much more likely is that it will need bored and new pistons, crank ground, rods resized, new cam, lifters springs and cam bearings, valve guides, valves, possibly hardened seats, and a few other odds and ends that are probably slipping my mind. The cost of machine work varies so much from location to location and shop to shop that I would be afraid to guess on that aspect. Locally, and depending on how much the engine needs it could run anywhere from $1000 on the low end to $3500 on the high end.

When dealing with any engine that is a pull out (you can’t hear it run and do basic tests on it) you are dealing with a pig in a poke. If someone “claims” to have an old high performance engine for sale, absolutely verify that it is in fact what he claims it is. I have personally seen so many alleged “Corvette” motors that turned out to be anything from 307s to 350 2bbls, 383s sold as 440s, 396s claimed to be 454 and on and on. Make sure before you hand any money over that it’s not a 318 or 360.

Then there is also the question of is the engine is actually rebuildable. I often spend some time in a friend’s machine shop and have seen a whole bunch of engines that someone has bought off Craigs list that turned out to have cracked heads or blocks (some repairable some not).

Finally as for that thousand dollar 340 specifically. Admittedly I don’t live in your area so I don’t really have much of an idea on what things go for locally. The 340s were a good engine and made a nice reputation for themselves back in the day, relatively speaking they were also made in low numbers, so you would be buying some bragging rights. That being said, unless I was doing a restoration on a desirable car that originally had a 340 in it and really needed a 340 to complete the project I would only pay about ½ of that asking price.

Just like the Small Block Chevys, regardless of the displacement a Small Block Mopar engine visually looks just like any other Small Block Mopar. As your still in the shopping stage, I think I would expand my search a bit and also include 360s, which I suspect you will find are much more available and would be a lot cheaper on your pocket book to rebuild due to the cost difference in parts. The added 20 cubic inches and bottom end torque they help provide are also an added plus. Hell you can always say it’s a 360 Magnum when you’re done LOL.


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the 6.1 is only 16 cubic inches or so bigger than the 5.7-------not an issue that should show any significant issues in a street driven rod--

On the older rebuildable engines----------the issues with todays fuels and oils on exhaust valve seats and tappets/camshafts---------not worth the drama of rebuilding old heads unless someone is doing a numbers matching restoration----and that cams/lifters need to be changed to rollers which can be expensive!!!!
In the sb chev-there are roller camed cores available which can be fitted with alum aftermarket heads and then you can do either the carb or efi route.
Mopars-late 360magnums from pickups would be usable and could also be retro to carbs for period under hood look
As for what I'd use--I'd use something that the current political correct auto supply houses and dealers carried parts for-------on the road cooling , fuel supply, etc issues will just get you a long $$$$$$$$$$$$ride in a tow truck

The modern Ford and Mopar over head cam motors take up a lot of space and are hard to work on------the GM LS motors are light and can be simple-------

ME??????? I'd put a hemi in it and think I got 3 of the late models out there somewhere plus the 392 sittin by my flathead ford---------But they are expensive to rebuild--------and I got a full machine shop

I put a 1975 360 A motor in my 50 Ply wagon. Had the machine work done by a reputable shop. Got back a short block, crank and pistons already installed. Put it together with powersteering pump, new aluminum manifold, new Holley carb.......and have about a total of 3K in a turn key motor and not have to worry about computers, O2 sensors in exhaust etc. Always remember......KISS......keep it simple stupid.