Thread: Newbie. Some questions

Tweet

Hi, First a bit on me:
I'm from Argentina, and I'm a System Programmer who loves cars. I have some knowlegde on car systems (engine, transmission, electrical, suspension and brakes) from the hobbist point of view ;-)

I was planning to build a Hot Rod (or Street Rod, is there a difference?) from a 1930's Ford A or Chevy, preferably a truck.

As I know it takes a lot if planning, I start asking some questions on this topic.

I've been looking at some projects on the net (unfortunately, I don't know someome in my country who has started a project like this to ask for advice) and found that it's better to start whit the frame, suspensions, then engine and transmission. Is there a logical order to start from?

Some topic I couldn't find info about is on engine fitting. First, I don't want a 5 seconds truck at 0-60 mph. :-) Because I have to pay for the gas! :-))
So I've been looking at some engines here in my country for sale. I found some 30-40's V8, a '68 Thunderbird V8 (427 cc.), and last, but not least some 6 cyl. inline from some Chevy's (230 and 250 cc) and some Ford Falcon (188 and 221 cc). Here in my country, we have different Chevys and Falcons than there. I mentioned those because they are very common here, and it's esay to get spare parts and tuned parts for them.
Obviously, I'd would like to fit a V8 ;-), as they have great torque, and I'm planning to use the truck to carry some things. Not every day, but if it's needed... But I'm not sure if it will fit, physically talking, into some of the 30's hood. Have anyone done that?

Then I thought it would be nice to get an all-wheel-drvie transmission. I don't know if it would be easy to fit, so I started looking for info, but haven't found anything on this. Am I crazy?

I will start looking at some car/trucks projects, but it's difficult to found info and *specs* on the net about projects.

Thanks a lot.
Lalo

Lalo,
You certainly have a lot of ideas, some of which are truly ambitious. The four wheel drive can be done on almost anything but you are talking about a serious project requiring professional assistance.
Your best bet is to subscribe to current magazines dealing with street rods, basic engine swaps, how tos, etc. Do a lot of research BEFORE you invest in anything!!!
I would stay way from the 6 cylinder engines and go with a small block early Chevrolet engine, i.e., 283, 327, 350 cubic inches. You should not have any serious problems putting this type and size engine in almost anything.
This reply could go on forever. There are some extremely knowledable people on this web site, but you need to do your research and get more specific as to what you intend to do.
Pick out a vehicle that is readily available and that you like the looks first. Then decide on what you want to do as far as engine changes etc. THEN get on this web site (or others like it) and ask specific questions as to how, what , when, who, etc.

Good luck,

Harris

There is a guy in Canada who is building a 1952 Chevrolet Suburban using all-wheel-drive componests from Chevy S-10 and Astro.

http://www.commerce.usask.ca/staff/hipkin/burb/

His story will give you an idea how one guy has approached that kind of project with an old truck. I'm doing a suburban also, so I've been following his project. I'm NOT doing the all-wheel-drive thing.

Originally posted by Larry's Roush
Lalo,
You certainly have a lot of ideas, some of which are truly ambitious. The four wheel drive can be done on almost anything but you are talking about a serious project requiring professional assistance.
Your best bet is to subscribe to current magazines dealing with street rods, basic engine swaps, how tos, etc. Do a lot of research BEFORE you invest in anything!!!
I would stay way from the 6 cylinder engines and go with a small block early Chevrolet engine, i.e., 283, 327, 350 cubic inches. You should not have any serious problems putting this type and size engine in almost anything.
This reply could go on forever. There are some extremely knowledable people on this web site, but you need to do your research and get more specific as to what you intend to do.
Pick out a vehicle that is readily available and that you like the looks first. Then decide on what you want to do as far as engine changes etc. THEN get on this web site (or others like it) and ask specific questions as to how, what , when, who, etc.

Good luck,

Harris

Probably, I didn't include a list of some of the changes I've been planning for the project, as it was a kind of "intro message" :-)
I've been thinking on posting on the other areas about specific questions regarding engine, transmission, frame construction (should I take the original or build a custom one, or take a new one as in the link OldSub posted?), brakes (I know I want disk brakes at the four wheels, and I'm researching on ABS too). But it will take a bit of time to post them, as I want the post to be clearly written and english is not my first language (I mean, no problem with the language, except the mechanical jargon).

Thanks for the advice on engines. I'll start looking for those kind of engines, but I don't think they will be easily available here.
Just a question, Is the same a 40's engine than an 80's engine? I'm sure I will have more luck getting a 40's one than a 80's V8.
And whatever I get, I will power it (I'm planning too how much power I'd like to have). So I 'll start looking for tuned parts to.
And I'm also considering to include a supercharger too.

I 've almost decided what car I like. After researching a bit (at www.carnut.com, lots of pics!), I decide to get a 1930-32 truck (either Ford or Chevy). If I can't get one, I'll try to get a 2 door sedan from that age, then a 3 window coupe, also from that age.
I have some others models I like, but none as those above.

Thanks a lot for your advice. I knew from the very first moment it wouldn't be a "fit'n bolt" project, and to know there are some experienced people there I can ask, makes it less hard to start with.

Thanks OldSurb for your post too. I've been looking at the link you send me and I'm sure I will get a very big piece of advice from it.

Greets,
Lalo

Your welcome. I hope it helps!

Lalo,
There is a world of difference between these decades apart engines. Don't buy a 40s engine... they are not as efficient, parts are not available, and they, generally speaking, will not give you what you want. ( I don't want arguments about a stroked 48 Merc with the Ardun heads that put out over 300 horsepower)
This guy is just starting and has enough problems.
Most any valve-in-head (overhead valve) engine will get you started. You have a good idea in the 29-31 Ford pick-up, but you may find more availability in the coupes or sedans. The small block Chevrolet motor will fit easily and there shouldn't be too much of a problem in finding a Powerglide or Turbo 350/400 transmission. Run a 4 barrell carb and a Ford 8" or 9" rear end.

Check in HOT ROD type magazines for a wiring kit.

Keep me posted and I'll try to share the few things I know that will work. For your first car.....keep it simple!!!

Harris

(I'm not quoting, as it will be long to read.)

Well, thanks for the advice. I'm currently learning on race engines, and suppose newer engines are better, but didn't know if there were racing parts for the older ones. I'll tke newer ones.
I found that '60s age are great engines, either by Ford or Chevy.
Can you recommend a ford one that is similar to Chevy 350 in specs? What about the 352?

Well, after a bit of searching for a 350 Chevy, let me tell you it'll be a very difficult task to get one, as it seem not to be a popular one here. I guess it will be twice worse to get the transmission. Automatic ones almost don't exist here.
The problem is that those found, belong to fully restored car, and besides being a "crime" to strip the needed parts, those cars are very expensives ones. More than importing parts.

That little search also showed me that there's a lot of sites in USA from where I can import parts. But, I can't afford such prices (although I don't care now, as I'm at the first stages of planning).

I think I should try to organize some questions (very specific ones) to get answered. I can't figure general ones, as they come to my mind when I reminber each part a car must have. For example, the engine one. I didn't know how to go on before knowing that a modern V8 engine can fit in such an old one body.
After the answer I started to pay attention to pictures I found on the net, and a lot of them had a V8 inside!

Just to follow this thread, is it possible to adapt a "quick-shift-gear" to that gear-box? Like race car one, I found on the net that modern electronic controlled gear-box have both automatic and quick-shift transmission. Any idea? (see, that 's another specific question :-))
And another one: do you think a big-block one can fit in that body too? Just to narrow the search.

When you start such a project, do you try to get "all" the involved parts from the beginning, don't you? It seems I should take that way, as parts are not so common here.

Well, may be I should go on searching parts and try to fit them together in a paper sheet first. At least to know what can I get here... and what can i get imported.

At least I have decided the body, almost have the engine, not pretty sure on transmission, I want 4-disk brakes, and not worrying about suspension, steering and wheels for now.

Thanks a lot for your advices.
Lalo

Lalo,
You might try and find a Ford engine instead of the Chev 350, although I would think the early Chev small blocks would be your best buy. Look for a 260-289-302 or 351 Ford engine. The 352 Ford engine would be a poor substitute as it is from an entirely different family of engines that the Fords I have listed.

Some of your ideas go far beyond the scope of your experience.

Give me some idea of what kind of cars/truck you would have access to. What is available to you in regards to your income.

Like I said before, stay with something that is relatively simple at first. You can always change or modify as your experience and income increases.

What kinds of car do your peers drive, what mods have they made. You need a local support group or car club to share ideas.



Harris

Well, first my income. Up to now, i'm not married and living with my parents, and I have no major expenses, so let's suppose, money isn't the most important problem.

What it seems to be the major problem is to find parts to build a rod. I've been searching this week and found there are 4 or 5 Chevys 350, and less Ford ones.
Unfortunately, thay are sold with a car! :-) But all of them are for restoring. So, may be I press de saler to sell me only the engine.
What I have no luck up to now is with transmission. I'll try to search at neighbor country. I'll also look for completely new transmission. I've read at project33.com (really great site for newbies, do you know another one?) he's using a 700R4, and a new differential. I guess they are too big for and almost stock engine, but may be there are smaller.

What is plenty available are those inline 6 cyl. I told you above. In fact I found some 40's chevys and ford coupes hot rodded with those engines. No idea about torque and hp specs, and although I 'd like to get a V8 (BIGGER torque and hp), they are plenty available and it's easy to get spare parts (and racing ones) for them. We have a racing category called "TC" which uses those engines, and get 350+ hp!

Next, the body. I could only find 2 ford A coupe (both 1930, both complete), several ford a pickup and sedan, but just 1 or 2 Chevys from that age, all sedan 4dr. I think that those age chevys were no popular at all. At least not in south america.
So i'll have to stick whit the A model. I'd have liked my rod be all chevy, but it doesn't matter, while it "heart" be a Chevy one. ;-) (big fan, isn't it?)
I found there are many '38-'46 coupes. Nice ones too, but I prefer the squared ones.

I could found no company (here, of course) which builds bodys or frames. It seems hot-rods aren't a big bussiness here.

My plan (up to now :-) ) is to work on an original frame and body. I have to adapt it to the new engine and transmission, then suspension and wheels, then work on the body. I can manage to "rebuild" original body parts with fiberglass, like doors or not too big ones. Then painting, and bolting all together.
Interior isn't a major problem. I have a completely interior from a Renault Clio and it won't be a problem to adapt it, with some changes.

That's all. Please ask me wathever thing I forgot to mention.

Lalo,
Thanks for the information, it helps. You mentioned the engines you have found come with cars attached. Thats good!! If you bought a "donor" car you would have the motor, transmission, the rear end, and possible power steering and power brakes. You could possibly use the radiator and endless nuts and bolts in your street rod. If the car has a tilt steering wheel you can also use it!! Try and find a Chevrolet car with the small block and automatic trans...even if the trans is a Powerglide. They are only a two speed, but they can be made very strong. You could pull all of the parts from the donor car and use most of them in your Model A. Don't get down if the car takes longer than you initially expect. When you get the car running and can drive it for the first time it will be all worth the wait.
The model As you have found would be a perfect beginning and make an excellent street rod. (Thats what I have)

Keep me posted,

Harris

PS> Those 35-48 sedans you mentioned are very polular in the states now. They call them "Fat Fendered Rods"

Hi,

when i first read the add, i thought: "I can buy the car, strip the parts I need, and then sell the rest altogether or as spare parts someone may need", that's a nice point to take into account. Unfortunately, the one which was published last week was completely except for the transmission.
I'll also try to find some manual gearbox, as we are too used to it here. Except I can get a quick-shift-and-auto one, I will stick with manual transmission. It's only that I feel more comfortable, and have more control of the car.

It doesn't matter (at least for me and now) how many days (months or years too) it will take. I only hope I still can drive it when its finished! :-)) Now, seriously, I think I won't be able to get all the parts needed at the beginning, and things are very likely to change when the rod is at its advanced stages, and for several projects I found on the net, it doesn't take less than 3 years (that's if you have a life too, and don't spend 16 hours a day with the car). I'm seriously considering to get spare and performance parts from abroad in case local industries can't help me, so it will take more time to get the parts too.

One question about model A: I found some places where coupes one are called "Hiboy" (or Hi Boy?) but other places where not. Are there two models?

Do you have some background info about A models? Historical one and technical too, like physical measures. Any site? or book?

I started to look info on frame restoration. My main concern now is to know if i can repair a rusted/holed one. found some sites but couldn't dig deep into the process.

See you.

Lalo,
I sent you a detailed response yesterday, but I don't see the reply posted.

Harris

Sorry, but i can't find your response. Was it a PM?

I answered your last mail (04-23-2003). And this is the reply to the 04-26 one.

What library?

Lalo,
In the post that seems to have disappeared I just touched on a few thing 'll try and repeat.
Why don't you go to your local library and look up the History of Henry Ford and His Cars... or any other make you might like. I think you will find something on specifications and dimensions and you probably will find it interesting reading.
The hi-boys basically were cars without fenders. Some had a higher stance (sat higher). But, to my knowledge, there was never a model made that was called the hi-boy from the factory.

One thing I did suggest was that you buy a car you like and then get dirty...tear if apart (within reason) to see what makes it work. You might even decide to make moderate updates to the suspension (shocks, springs etc), tear the engine down and have the head(s) milled, put some pipes on the car and so on, etc.

There is a lot to be gained in reading up on a project but nothing beats actually having the car in your driveway and fixing it up to what you want the car to be. Remember, the first car you buy is merely a stepping stone to a more desirable model later on.

What kind of cars are available @ a reasonable price that you show some intereest in?

Talk with you later,

Harris

I want to thank you for all your valuable help.

I've started to investigate about car systems, and was able to contact a local hot-rod club, so I'll assist to the next meeting.

It's gona be difficult to get a good book on the A's, but i'm not loosing my faith. I really like those cars, and altough I haven't decided which specific version to build, I'm convinced this project will "caught my attention" if build an A instead of other car.

My main concern now is to find a place where I can work in the car. I don't have a very big closed garage to work.

I'll start posting specific questions on the other areas too, when I have a bit of time...

Thanks again.
Lalo.