Thread: First paint project

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Hi all, this is my first post here, and I realize that this seems to be a classic hotrod forum, but who better to pick the brain of than the rodders that appreciate classic muscle like myself? lol.

My only hotrod currently is an offering from the early '80s, an '83 Ford Mustang GT. I've owned this car for about 9 years, and it's been a mostly garaged project so far.
I rebuilt the original 302HO 0.30 over, bought and tweaked some factory casting heads w/1.90/1.60 valves, installed rumpity cam, RPM intake & 650 dbl. pmpr. Holley, long headers w/ Flowmaster mufflers, T-5, 3.45 geared Tracloc.
It runs out good, but, I never finished the appearance end of the project.

Last year, I started fixing any small dings that were present, after using wax/grease remover & rough sanding the faded original black paint, the car was basically straight & rust-free, replaced the front fascia to an '84 GT (found at a scrap yard for $50, and a better looking part than the '83 GT's... lower air dam w/foglight openings), moved the non-functional hilarious hood scoop forward towards the cowl 3" and molded it to the hood for a smooth look, & primed it w/ a cheap lacquer based red oxide primer/surfacer bought from a local Car Quest store which is also a PPG supplier.
I put a good coat on, then proceeded to block sand and fix any more imperfections along the way. The car is straight, except for minor fill-ins still needed, which I noticed after I wet-sanded the whole car. So, in essence, it's not quite ready, but will be without much more effort.
After doing more research on paint products, I suppose I should've used an epoxy primer over the bodywork, then a high-build surfacer for final wet-sanding?
This being my first paint project, I didn't want to invest alot of $$$ in paint products if my ability doesn't exceed my expectations or confidence.
So, I've been tossing back and forth on the issue of what type of paint to use, bc/cc or ss?
I've pretty much concluded that a metallic acrylic enamel is out of the question unless I'd be happy with orange peel and no color sanding, so I would definitely go with a solid color on the enamel.
Bc/cc is more expensive when using the best products available, but will be easier to fix defects in the clear coat.

So, my question is, will a high quality solid colored acrylic enamel be my best bet for a practice run on my elcheapo project?
Can I color sand and buff a high quality acrylic enamel finish effectively?
As in "high quality" I mean name brands....PPG, Dupont, Sherwin-Williams etc...?

My color choice will be based on how good my prep work has been so far, but I won't go back to the original black.
My choices will most likely be a bright Ford Chrome Yellow, or Hugger orange or?
Both of those colors seem to work for the fox-bodied Mustangs, but I want to do it right... jambs, trim removal, misc. parts removal, etc...

Any advice on products or application will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.


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Hey PT , You can get a nice job from a acrylic system but you wont be able to color sand it unless you add hardner to it. Urethane would be a better choice. As far as painting over the old stuff I would talk to the local paint supplier . I believe a good sealer would be recommended . Also, a lot of guys are using omni bc/cc , a cheaper line of ppg .
Darin

Appreciate that bit of info Darin.

The only thing about when buying the products at the paint supplier is, the counterman was recommending the Omni line instead of the PPG stating that a novice painter doesn't need to spend big $$$ for a first time project.
But if the finish is going to be substandard with the cheaper paint, what's the point?
I keep reading that "you get what you pay for", which is true in most cases.
Just like the cheap, non-catalized primer/surfacer he recommended for my foundation, like it wasn't that big of a deal, it'll work with single stage enamel....but how long?
I'm not sure whether or not that guy knew for sure what he was talking about. It was an auto parts store that was also a PPG dealer.

Anyhow, I thought single stage acrylic enamel requires a hardener additive regardless?
I've just read in other articles that some brands don't colorsand very well. I guess the tech sheet would tell me that? Not sure.

I will definitely be doing this myself whichever product I'm leaning towards. I just want to get some more insight from people like yourself who know for sure.

Here some reading for you :
http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase...Info.asp?Cat=4

If you want to read about the other quality PPG products just got to the Products Information tab and click on Paint Lines, then arrow down to Deltron , and read about the Base Coat & Concept 2K Single Stage products.

The if you want to read how to apply and what products to use under these fine products go to the left side drop down window & pull down and click on the Top Coats .

I Have used the BDU/DBC products since they came out in the late 80's with Global clear over it and never have any problems.
The concept is an excellent Single stage product and it can be sanded and buffed to an excellent shine . But it has a window where it buffs nice , then after about 4 days it rubs like cement. The sand scratches can be buffed out but it will take a little longer !
Global buffs like Butter and they have an excellent Single stage too, the price difference isnt that much .

SprayTech

I agree with you about using substandard
.I reread your post and see that you are not concerned about price, only that you were comparing ss to bc/cc in price. I believe Spraytech has directed you correctly . As far as acrylic you can shoot
with or without a hardner . I would strongly recommend a hardner on anything that allows it .

i used a gallon of 22 dollar john deere green paint and it worked better than a 230 dollar gallon so its definently not the price just look for the cheap stuff

Thanks alot Darin & Spraytech.

I was actually at the PPG site earlier today, but I guess my navigation was a bit off, I knew I missed something over there.

Professional opinions are worth the weight in gold to me on this stuff.

I had to take my Dodge Ram truck to a body shop last summer after it was hit by tornado debris. The owner of the shop turned out to be a childhood acquaintence from my neighborhood.
I was relieved that someone who knew me would do a quality job on my truck....EEEEEEEEERNT!! Wrong answer.

I tried to be calm about the whole thing, but his prep crew were idiots, and the painter dude was a runner-up for jerk of the year....arguing with paying customers.

They left junk and swirl marks in the paint, and badly orange-peeled areas around the side windows weren't even colorsanded or buffed. Re-assembly was a joke. I found a bed bolt hanging loose, the rear bumper was not aligned w/a loose bolt also, and they broke the plastic mounting points on the front grille, and got very irrate when I confronted them about it. ( they used an air-ratchet to loosen the rusty grille bolts and it snapped the plastic mounting ears....I figured that out when they were installing my NEW grille using the air ratchet....WD-40 guys...WD-40. )

I didn't even complain to my insurance company, and "they" were the ones who referred me there.
If I would've played my cards right, I could've had access to the paint booth and supplies for my Mustang....the guy offered!!
But I was so disgruntled about the $4000.00 shaft job on my truck, I told 'em to **** off.

Needless to say, I won't ever trust my rides to another shop, sorry guys. But that doesn't mean I won't accept knowledgeable advice from professional bodymen.

Thanks again.

Usen Omni single stage urethane paint from your PPG jobber. Omni paints are 5 year old PPG tecnologies that were used as the DAU and DB line. 5 years ago they were great, why are they not so now? Single stage urethanes are sprayed like enamels and allow for sanding to remove defect. Omni or Nasons are great paints to practice on and will give you good results.

Originally posted by SprayTech
Here some reading for you :
http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase...Info.asp?Cat=4

If you want to read about the other quality PPG products just got to the Products Information tab and click on Paint Lines, then arrow down to Deltron , and read about the Base Coat & Concept 2K Single Stage products.

The if you want to read how to apply and what products to use under these fine products go to the left side drop down window & pull down and click on the Top Coats .

I Have used the BDU/DBC products since they came out in the late 80's with Global clear over it and never have any problems.
The concept is an excellent Single stage product and it can be sanded and buffed to an excellent shine . But it has a window where it buffs nice , then after about 4 days it rubs like cement. The sand scratches can be buffed out but it will take a little longer !
Global buffs like Butter and they have an excellent Single stage too, the price difference isnt that much .

SprayTech

Did you mean spraying a clearcoat over a single stage product?
Thanks.

Originally posted by m falconstien
Usen Omni single stage urethane paint from your PPG jobber. Omni paints are 5 year old PPG tecnologies that were used as the DAU and DB line. 5 years ago they were great, why are they not so now? Single stage urethanes are sprayed like enamels and allow for sanding to remove defect. Omni or Nasons are great paints to practice on and will give you good results.

Thanks. I'll check the price differences.
I am really concerned with price, because the car is not high value, but if i give it a decent facelift and decide to sell it, somebody might want it enough to pay the asking price.

Originally posted by P Tucker
Did you mean spraying a clearcoat over a single stage product?
Thanks.

PPG recommends adding a compatiable clear to your single stage DCC/Concept Color.
By this : Mix your color by directions, then mix your compatiable clear by instructions, then add the 2 together.
I have done this on every DCC I have done. First coat sprayed without the clear, then add clear to the next 2 coats. This makes your color go farther , and the clear has more UV protection then color does, so you get a longer lasting paint job.
I sprayed my buddies Red 88 GM truck back in 92 when we had a big hail storm , and still looks good today , but he keeps it washed and polished.
And it is garaged , but driven everyday.

Originally posted by SprayTech
PPG recommends adding a compatiable clear to your single stage DCC/Concept Color.
By this : Mix your color by directions, then mix your compatiable clear by instructions, then add the 2 together.
I have done this on every DCC I have done. First coat sprayed without the clear, then add clear to the next 2 coats. This makes your color go farther , and the clear has more UV protection then color does, so you get a longer lasting paint job.
I sprayed my buddies Red 88 GM truck back in 92 when we had a big hail storm , and still looks good today , but he keeps it washed and polished.
And it is garaged , but driven everyday.

Gotcha. Sounds like a plan.

I am trying to do a first time paint job too. But the fiber glass body which was long on cheap and short on quality control has more waves that a tsunami. I just cannot get the contoured surfaces right. I have worked on it for so long in my rare spare time. Sometimes I am up about it and other times down. Last night was one of the down times. A solution finally occurred to me. Do you think anybody would notice if I just covered it with padding and carpet instead of painting it? Ha!!

Rick

[QUOTE]Originally posted by P Tucker Hi tuck I use ta live in Indy, prbly gonna be back there this weekend. I guess its a sign of the times when a business can charge money turn out crapola work be hostile to the customer and argue about their stupid mistakes. Then stay in business. Here in the Ozarks its moe larry curly and abbot and costello every time u try to get something done. The locals treat customers like they are tourists and they brag about getting visitors money before they go home. Sooner or later it catches up with them.
[B] Thanks alot Darin & Spraytech.

I was actually at the PPG site earlier today, but I guess my navigation was a bit off, I knew I missed something over there.

Professional opinions are worth the weight in gold to me on this stuff.

I had to take my Dodge Ram truck to a body shop last summer after it was hit by tornado debris. The owner of the shop turned out to be a childhood acquaintence from my neighborhood.
I was relieved that someone who knew me would do a quality job on my truck....EEEEEEEEERNT!! Wrong answer.

I tried to be calm about the whole thing, but his prep crew were idiots, and the painter dude was a runner-up for jerk of the year....arguing with paying customers.

They left junk and swirl marks in the paint, and badly orange-peeled areas around the side windows weren't even colorsanded or buffed. Re-assembly was a joke. I found a bed bolt hanging loose, the rear bumper was not aligned w/a loose bolt also, and they broke the plastic mounting points on the front grille, and got very irrate when I confronted them about it. ( they used an air-ratchet to loosen the rusty grille bolts and it snapped the plastic mounting ears....I figured that out when they were installing my NEW grille using the air ratchet....WD-40 guys...WD-40. )

I didn't even complain to my insurance company, and "they" were the ones who referred me there.
If I would've played my cards right, I could've had access to the paint booth and supplies for my Mustang....the guy offered!!
But I was so disgruntled about the $4000.00 shaft job

Hey spraytech , I have been thinking
about trying the clear and concept mix you described. Do you think the southernpoly
clear ( if you have heard of this line ) would be compatible? They claim to have an excellent clear . (3500 is the product #) Also If the southern poly
is compatible , what do toy believe the
window would be to buff ? You know I mentioned adding clear to the final coat of a ss paint job on another forum and they thought I was crazy. I believe this would be a more durable paint job than a bc/cc job Thanks Darin