Thread: Need help with wrinkling substrate under base/clear

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I am having fits with the base/clear Lesonal paint which I purchased for the roadster pickup, wrinkling the substrate when I spray it on previously bodyworked and primed panels. I am at the point now where I am real gunshy about painting the peices that I have left (front fenders and cowl and splash aprons),and repaint of the botched up grillshell and tailgate as they have all been extensively bodyworked and primed. Is there a good quality sealer (perhaps epoxy primer?) that I can spray on my remaining peices to ensure that they don't wrinkle when I paint them with base/clear? I need something that will absolutely seal the substrates from the reducer in the yellow base coat.--- I would prefer something that can be sprayed, left to flash off for a couple of hours, then sprayed over without sanding.---I've sanded as much as I really want to.---if that is not feasible, then something that cures for a week, then only needs to be lightly scuffed with a Scotchbrite pad---I'm getting kind of desperate here.---The darn stuff doesn't wrinkle consistently, but any wrinkling is not acceptable in a car that I have this much time and money into. I love the paint--when it goes on without wrinkling it sprays easy, has a beautifull gloss, and is everything that you would want a paint to be. Probably much of the fault is mine, as I have used various primers over the last year---laquer based primer, high solids primer, even rattlecan primer---bad on me, shoulda known better. Now I gotta get out of this fix, so hope a sealer will save my __ss

This painting ain't quite as easy as everyone thinks...huh?

Any time you sand through a catalyzed topcoat clear, painting over it becomes "hazardous".

The way I handle situations like this is to dust a two-part primer over the fragile area, using a fast catalyst and fast reducer, so it doesn't penetrate too much. Give it an hour between light coats. try to get about three coats on. Let dry over night, then scuff sand, and start repainting the base and clearcoat.

If you can't sand out the imperfections in the primer, touch up with glaze and then spot seal, before painting. Whatever you do, don't sand through the primer! This is your barrier coat to prevent lifting! (unless, of course, you want to fix it AGAIN!) :-)

brian, first of all what type of primer did you use under the sikkins?
If its was a 2K product , you can shoot a few coats over the sanded lifting area like HRP said , I would let it sit 24 hours , then water sand the whole panel with 600-800 grit. That should hold down the broken clear edge to allow you to get color layed down.
OR see if sikkins has a non sanding catylized sealer that will work .

What temp reducer are you using in the base?
May try a faster drying temp so it doesnt attack that edge so bad.

I thought you had a Sikkins master to see and show you what needed to be done to correct your problem?

Spray

I have been promised the use of a Sikkens Master, but this is the weekend and all the Sikkens Masters work Monday to Friday. I am not 100% sure that I have a real problem, but I am listening to all the input from people with more up to date experience than myself. The only actual problem I have had with wrinkling occured when I tried to apply new base/clear over areas that I had painted 48 hours previously with base clear and for one reason or another had messed up (thumbprint) and wanted to respray to fix. Today one of the wheels I sprayed wrinkled a bit, but that was one of the wheels which I had painted last year with "Zero Rust" paint, a high resin enamel chassis paint. I have not really had an issue with wrinkling on any of the parts which I have primed over the last year---its just that I am really gunshy now, and trying to anticipate problems and how to avoid them. I have painted a lot with acrylic enamel, and a bit with base/clear in the past without problems, and now this damn wrinkling business has me a bit weirded out.

Brian,
Are you using a Sikkins sealer to seal the primer from the base ? But that shouldnt be an issue at all though. But spraying a coat of the sealer they recommend over the sanded clear area may stop the lifting .
And 48 hours dry time and still lifting is not a good thing. It should be gassed off enough to allow spotting in , even if you sand through the clear.

I can understand being gun shy of doing the other panels.

Hang in there , it will all come together .

Spray

I may have found my answer. Lesonal has a product called "base fix" which is formulated for, quote "A clear insulating coat on sanded through areas (method for sanded through areas on second repair)"---- I will persue this product, which is fortunately sold by the quart, with my paint sales rep this week----Salvation may be in sight.---Actually, up to this point in my painting I haven't been held up by any of these paint shenanigans--its just got me worried as Hell. All I have left to do is finish paint the body (minus doors) and the 2 front fenders and splash aprons, then fix the screwed up grillshell and tailgate.

For what its worth brian , I dont think I would use that product again if you have to buy another product to have to be able to spot repair their own paint ...LOL
Hopefully your paint guroo will help you get it all figured out.

Try PPG's DBU Base ( if avaialble ) next time, Its alot easier to use , and I have been using it since it came out in the late 80's when it was first introduced . Its spotability is alot easier to work.

Spray

Sounds like you are sufferiing from 'bounce', where the solvents work in, and then out. If the surface cures before the solvents work back out, it wrinkles.
When I had this happen it looked like a spider web.
The solution was/is to fix the surface and let it set a while. Then apply the next coat as lightly as possible...just a dusting...and walk away and let it cure. No thick coats. Just light coats.
Solved my problem and slowed me down a bit (when it counted)
Jeff

Originally posted by brianrupnow
I am having fits with the base/clear Lesonal paint which I purchased for the roadster pickup, wrinkling the substrate when I spray it on previously bodyworked and primed panels. I am at the point now where I am real gunshy about painting the peices that I have left (front fenders and cowl and splash aprons),and repaint of the botched up grillshell and tailgate as they have all been extensively bodyworked and primed. Is there a good quality sealer (perhaps epoxy primer?) that I can spray on my remaining peices to ensure that they don't wrinkle when I paint them with base/clear? I need something that will absolutely seal the substrates from the reducer in the yellow base coat.--- I would prefer something that can be sprayed, left to flash off for a couple of hours, then sprayed over without sanding.---I've sanded as much as I really want to.---if that is not feasible, then something that cures for a week, then only needs to be lightly scuffed with a Scotchbrite pad---I'm getting kind of desperate here.---The darn stuff doesn't wrinkle consistently, but any wrinkling is not acceptable in a car that I have this much time and money into. I love the paint--when it goes on without wrinkling it sprays easy, has a beautifull gloss, and is everything that you would want a paint to be. Probably much of the fault is mine, as I have used various primers over the last year---laquer based primer, high solids primer, even rattlecan primer---bad on me, shoulda known better. Now I gotta get out of this fix, so hope a sealer will save my __ss