Thread: Organized Paint Shops?

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I am wanting to get some information on how shops and body men stay organized when going into a job and having to get prices for their customer for a price list on materials, labor, etc.... Is there any sheets I can print off or anything to help me out here to make a list of ALL the materials I will need for the job, then for the prices, etc? I get so stressed out when doing this and sometimes forget little things. The job I am doing now I need to have a full price list on the materials, estimated time it will take me to do the work, etc. I was hoping one of you guys know anything on this. Also my father said on materials to add about 20% to the price of the final cost since I will be going out of my way to pick them up, having to find the prices on all of it, etc. Is this alright to do or too much? Thanks a lot for any suggestions!

Some shops mark the materials up a set amount, and they have them delivered by the store.

Most will use a system similar to this:

http://www.mitchell1.com/


Fill in your basic profile (hourly rate, shop rate, labor rate, clean up, taxes, etc) and with it's weekely online cost updates (parts etc), you have one powerful quoting tool for the body shop industry.

Bill S.

yep, it's hard to give good advice here cause there is none.. the last shop I worked at before i started my own shop was spending $1,000.00 a month on estimating systems.. lol.... but check out compest.com not a very expensive system.. it's like 180 a month.... if you email me a list of everything your looking to do i could figure out a estimate of what i'd suggest,, but i'd need some pics also

The body shop business is operated on a flat rate system. Hours are broken down into tenths of an hour. Certain operations are allowed a certain amount of time. To overhaul a pick up truck bumper may take (pay) one hour (1.0). If it's a painted bumper, it may take eight tenths of an hour to paint it (0.8).

All this is done at a localized labor rate. Currently in the Detroit area, this labor rate is $36 per flat rate hour. Paint and materials are figuired the same way. Refinish time as listed for our bumper example is how materials are figuired. The materials are multiplied typically at half the labor rate ($18 X 0.8 hours = $14.40).

Body shop estimates do not break down individual materials other than hard parts to the car. You won't see sanding disks, sand paper, or three quarts of paint. Just a line listing materials.

Labor rates used to be figuired from labor guides (see the attachment below). Now these have been replaced by computer software (my cost from Mitchell per month is $218.). Books are still available, but fewer and fewer shops are using these. The example attached below is from the '60's, so the detail used currently is considerably different.

Parts purchased by the body shop are sold to them at wholesale prices. These are resold at retail pricing. It should be noted some shops sometimes charge more than retail (price gouging). Insurance companies pay suggested retail only. This is true of OEM parts and late model aftermarket parts.

Used parts and other unusual parts are based on cost plus mark up. This mark up is usually 25%, though some shops are trying to get 30% or more. Part adjustments by the OEM's occur monthly. Some parts go up, others go down.

Sales tax for parts and labor will obviously vary by where you live. In Michigan, only parts and materials are taxed (6%), while labor is not. Most states tax both.

Some items like glass are handled on a sublet basis. When I get a price on glass, it's usually an installed price, including tax. In some cases, if I'm overhauling a door assembly, the glass is written as a part, as the body tech will be installing the glass. Other items that may be listed as sublet are wheel alignments, tires mounted and balanced and other items sent out to other shops (trim shops, alarm shops, etc.).

There are other operations that do not require a part replacement, but are not included. This can include aim headlamps, recharging air conditioning systems and disconnecting an air bag system before some parts are replaced.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: It should also be noted that deductions are made based on overlap. If you paint a fender and door, a certain amount of labor would be deducted because it will take less time to paint both together than both individually.

I'll also attach a copy of a basic estimate using the newer software. It's amazing how I can still remember the VIN from my first new car 20 years later . (If anyone has a CarFax account and can tell me if this car is still on the road, I'm interested in knowing... )

Those links are not working for me.... Mopar, I will take pics of the car and send them to you ASAP. It will be sometime next week.
Thanks guys, keep the info comming, it is helping!

my materials are included in my rates. i dont have time to crunch
numbers and count sandpaper. collision shops have someone who just does estimates because it eats up a lot of time. if your a one man show you'll lose money. pencil and winshield time does'nt pay well

Man I so want to comment on the Insurance crap its not funny , but will keep it to myself .

Its whats ruining the industry !!!!!
And some cannot figure out why all the good Tech's are leaving the business , and I am not far behind !!!

Its because we cant make any money any more times have been cut so bad its pitiful !!!

SprayTech

Spray Tech, there is no doubt the insurance industry practices unofficial price fixing. The first company I worked for, and was trained by said they had three basic rules;

1) Treat the customer fairly
2) Treat the repair shop fairly
3) Treat the insurance company fairly

I try to adhere to this practice, but I know most adjusters look at the competitive side and try to 'beat' the body shop. Our labor rates are probably the cheapest in the country. Because of this, I try to keep my materials rate as high as I can without making my customers (insurance companies) upset.

I also know that Mitchell's system doesn't include nub time so I try to include this on the estimate as well. Pathway's and ADP usually include nub time in it's paint labor. Using the old time guide as a comparison, I don't think the actual times have changed, but newer cars tend to use more or different processes.

Another issue is the training of insurance company personal in the use of the computerized programs. Training on these systems is minimal at best, and is commonly less than that. Many operations the shop is entitled to isn't included as the 'P pages' suggest they are. This usually comes from 'old guard' insurance people who don't understand the newer systems.

i dont know about the states your in but here in texas the ins co.'s cant dictate where and what. i hate them and always have. i do claims on streetrods and they either pay my estimate or come get the car. if your young and starting out the ins co will rob you of your retirement over the next 20 years. set your cost in stone and dont back down. it's your shop , run it that way. you can make it without insurance work.

Originally posted by shine
i dont know about the states your in but here in texas the ins co.'s cant dictate where and what. i hate them and always have. i do claims on streetrods and they either pay my estimate or come get the car. if your young and starting out the ins co will rob you of your retirement over the next 20 years. set your cost in stone and dont back down. it's your shop , run it that way. you can make it without insurance work.

No insurance company anywhere can tell you where to take the car, period. They can suggest repair facilities. Their pro shops usually will offer a lifetime guarantee on the work and back it up with insurance company funds if need be. To a lay person, this can be a strong incentive. Personally, I know who does good work and who doesn't. If asked by customers, I put quality of work and the shops ability to cooperative ahead of discounts or insurance company preferences.

As for taking a shops estimate...let's just say that if the shop isn't reasonable, I know 10 other shops who can do just as good a job. And this includes street rods. It makes no difference to me who makes the money.

That said, I expect no one to work for free. I also don't write estimates for collectable or specialty cars at the same rate as a typical late model either. In cases where special paints or custom body work is concerned, consideration definitely needs to be given. But all a 'My way or the highway' attitude would do is make your competitor happy.

By the way FMX, those are Adobe Acrobate files in the links above. You need an Acrobate reader. You can download a free copy from Adobe

Oh alright I see. Thanks man! I will download that tonight. I guess I will take my dad's advice and just get all the materials together and add 20% on the price for me having to run around finding the materials, picking them up, etc. How is Carquest? Are their prices any good or too high? I am going to order some of my stuff from Mopar on the boards here but not everything. Any idea's?

All our Ins. co. here quit giving feather edge & prime time , block time , cut and buff time Or mix time for my mixing bank , it doesnt matter if the panel has 6-7 hours of body work on it all I get is straight refinish time , which is a crock !!!

7-9 years ago flat rate was $25.00 a labor hour , I was making $11.75 of it and was making 80-100K a year , now we are at $42.00 a labor hour , and am making $20.00 a labor paint hour & cant sniff 50K , as the Insurance Companies have flat ruined the Business !!

I have been told by several Insurance Co. estimators that I was making way to much money , since when is it their decision to say I make way to much money ??

All I have to say is the Insurance Companies have set the Auto Industry back to the road of shoddy workmanship , beings they have gotten stingy .


SprayTech