Thread: Brookville primers

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I just contacted Brookville and for any of you that are doing a '28 - '32, this is the information that I got:

"THE PRIMER THAT WE USE IS WESTERN SELECT ACRYLIC PRIMER RED OXIDE RS4201, THE LACQUOR THINNER WE USE IS 5770, WE RECOMMEND YOU CLEAN OFF AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE , THE METAL HAS NOT BEEN PREPPED."

And the rest of that story is that the acrylic laquer primer is porous allowing moisture, over time, to migrate to the metal beneath. The longer the body sits the more the metal underneath rusts, rate depends on ambiant conditions.

There's more to the story . . .

I wouldn't put any kind of modern paint over that primer. Strip it and re-prime with an etching primer for adhesion.

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

There's more to the story . . .

I wouldn't put any kind of modern paint over that primer. Strip it and re-prime with an etching primer for adhesion.

I hadn't planned on totally stripping the body until I talked to SPI which started me asking questions. Their response was cut and pasted directly from their email to me and was my latest OH S@#*! - more unexpected work on this body.

Needless to say, my DA is warmed up, my supply of epoxy primer checked, a new bucket of 2K ready to go. And since it is supposed to rain (Earnesto's backlash), I guess walking around a fairgrounds is not going to happen and I can start making (more) dust

Two part primers are well worth the money. They build a much more stable surface, that doesn't swell from solvents, then shink later to expose imperfections and body work under the primer.

Everyone worries about the primer as a moisture barrier, but I guide coat and wet sand the 2K primer on all of my jobs, including "from bare metal" work, and in the last 15 years I've been using it, I've NEVER had rusting underneath!!! I'm confident enough to guarantee every job for as long as you own it...........and I sleep just great at night! :-)

Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT

Two part primers are well worth the money. They build a much more stable surface, that doesn't swell from solvents, then shink later to expose imperfections and body work under the primer.

Everyone worries about the primer as a moisture barrier, but I guide coat and wet sand the 2K primer on all of my jobs, including "from bare metal" work, and in the last 15 years I've been using it, I've NEVER had rusting underneath!!! I'm confident enough to guarantee every job for as long as you own it...........and I sleep just great at night! :-)

Two part primers = epoxy primer?

Like DP-90?

And perhaps skip the etching primer?

Epoxy primers seem to grip really well, does the etching primer grip well and then the epoxy primer over that is the way to go?
Or would DP-90 suffice?

2K primer is anoher name for what Brookville puts down?

I was going to use lacquer thinner to wash the primer off, but if it's a job I could skip it wouldn't hurt my feelings.

My Brookville 30-31 roadster body is four years old and has been stored in the garage in low humidity climates.

Fwiw, I used a Rootlieb hood on my 32.
It came with a very smooth coat of primer on it.
I don't know what kind, but shooting acrylic lacquer over it did not create a reaction.

I sanded it down, shot on PPG acrylic lacquer - four coats if I remember right - and had a small bit of orangepeel.
I block sanded the orangepeel down with used 400 grit wet/dry, compounded and polished it and it ended up looking pretty good.

I note that you can use DP-90 as a sealer (instructions are on the can).
I think that would work well for me.
I'd prefer to have a sealer closer to the final color than a white sealer under black paint like last time.
I think the rock chips wouldn't show up so bad that way.

Any comments on using DP-90 as a sealer?

And perhaps a comment on using body filler over the top of the epoxy primer.
That was recommended by the auto paint shop where I bought the paint et al and it seems to be working well.

One more question.

My pal shot his 29 A roadster with DP-90 in a mustard-like color.
I don't know why the heck he did that - the color choice - but he did and a year later he was wondering why as well.

Anyway, he sanded that down and shot the roadster with DP-90 in a very dark almost black gray.

Looks good, but I'm wondering how much protection he has from the elements?

So far - about two years down the road for the last primer application - the car hasn't developed any rust bubbles that I can find.

An original body fwiw.

Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT

Two part primers are well worth the money. They build a much more stable surface, that doesn't swell from solvents, then shink later to expose imperfections and body work under the primer.

Everyone worries about the primer as a moisture barrier, but I guide coat and wet sand the 2K primer on all of my jobs, including "from bare metal" work, and in the last 15 years I've been using it, I've NEVER had rusting underneath!!! I'm confident enough to guarantee every job for as long as you own it...........and I sleep just great at night! :-)

Guys, I didn't open this thread to debate the various ways and materials to paint a car - there are about as many ways to paint a car as there are painters. This thread is only to describe what Brookville uses and the fact that it is best removed - their words - before final paint.
Painting debates are in other (many) threads.

As a note -
A. Brookville does NOT use 2K primer. Acrylic primer is NOT 2K. It is the old standard primer/thinner. It has a pot life of about as long as you can keep air away from it to induce drying.

B. 2K is a polyester base material with activator and has a pot life of a few hours to a couple of days.

C. Epoxy is a bare metal sealer and can also be used as a 2K sealer by some

Ok.

I just thought this would be a good time to ask a painter a few questions.

Jay, it's not my thread but it seems like a natural extension, so here goes.

DP 90 is epoxy primer. Just as an aside, 90 is the black one you see most. DP is also available in other colors distiguished by a number change; e.g 40 is gray-green, 48 is white, 50 is gray, 60 is blue, 74 is red oxide, all now have the suffix LF for lead free (older versions of DP had lead). PPG refers to it as rust resistant, so it probably wouldn't hold out moisture by itself long term. Also it is not UV resistant, so between those two alone it's not suitable for a topcoat.................though lots of folks use it that way.

Usually the term 2K is in reference to two part (catalysed) primer/surfacer, or sandable, high build surfacing primer. As an example in PPG there is K36, a light gray acrylic urethane product. Epoxy primers like DP don't have much film build so aren't used the same as primer/surfacers.

Etch primers are also not primer surfacers, essentially do the same function as the DP, but have phosphoric acid mixed in to etch the metal, and convert very minor surface rust. Like DP it is a mechanical bond, although there is the chemical reaction from the acid.

Another note on the DP tech sheet warns against covering a laquer primer with DP and then later top coating with any of the DP compatible products. Experience has shown high chance of lifting the substrate.

Well I am in the same boat as Irelands Child. My 1930 Brookville Model A roadster has the same primer on it. So I will be taking it down to bare metal and then begin the primer & painting process. I will be having this professionally done. I just got a new 1930 smooth cowl from Brookville which was bare metal & it is being primered the correct way. I'm still trying to decide on the two tone paint scheme. I kinda like the new 2007 Toyota blue ribbon metalic for the top color and I'll have to find a light silver for the main body & fenders. So many decisions to make & the problem is I have never done this before so I am kind of like a hog on ice.

A quick update - I'm slowly getting into removing the primer, using 80 grit on a DA or by hand. Several places there is absolutely no adhesion - it flakes off. Six inches away from that flaky spot, the primer is stuck like it never wants to come off. As a matter of interest, there was rust under the primer in a couple of spots - and it was there BEFORE the car was primed. SO, anyone who thinks that they can sucessfully paint a Brookville body w/o taking their primer off, good luck.

StylingZ - make sure the bolt holes on the cowl cover line up correctly before you paint it, mine needed some help - also, if you are going to use a 4 piece hood, you have to drill the bracket bolt holes. A 3 piece hood - no extra holes that (I'm aware of).

A tip for those who use lacquer. It is not like enamel. It depends on solvent penetration for adhesion. Always make sure it is sprayed "wet". If you shoot it dry, or over a surface that it has trouble penetrating, Like a well cured high gloss, it won't stick. I'm sure that is the problem on your body.

Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT

A tip for those who use lacquer. It is not like enamel. It depends on solvent penetration for adhesion. Always make sure it is sprayed "wet". If you shoot it dry, or over a surface that it has trouble penetrating, Like a well cured high gloss, it won't stick. I'm sure that is the problem on your body.

Hotrodpaint - if you read the first post you will see Brookville's response to me - they put primer on draw quality cold roll steel - just as it came from their presses - and oily in places. That plus the fact that the primer they use mediocre cheap crap and is totally being removed w/80 to 100 grit paper. There is no problem with the body except is is eating my retirement up many extra hour after hour. With that said, Brookville bodies are fine STEEL repro bodies, and take extensive time to repair their screw ups plus make necessary mods so an owner can run modern equipment - i.e. V8 motors with auto trans, etc, etc, etc.
Some day I will post my essay on this body - when I finish painting it.
Caveat emptor !!

Originally Posted by Irelands child

A quick update - I'm slowly getting into removing the primer, using 80 grit on a DA or by hand. Several places there is absolutely no adhesion - it flakes off. Six inches away from that flaky spot, the primer is stuck like it never wants to come off. As a matter of interest, there was rust under the primer in a couple of spots - and it was there BEFORE the car was primed. SO, anyone who thinks that they can sucessfully paint a Brookville body w/o taking their primer off, good luck.

StylingZ - make sure the bolt holes on the cowl cover line up correctly before you paint it, mine needed some help - also, if you are going to use a 4 piece hood, you have to drill the bracket bolt holes. A 3 piece hood - no extra holes that (I'm aware of).

I'm curious as to why you're sanding the primer off?

Wouldn't it be easier to wash the primer off with lacquer thinner, then sand?

A messy job, but fairly easy from what one painter friend tells me.