Thread: Should I let a PRO shoot the BC/CC?

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Hello all. While I'm not new to this forum, I don't know if I've ever posted a new thread. You all seem very kind and helpful to one another, and for that reason, I'm moving over from another forum, because I've grown tired of the attitudes of some of the "pro's" on the "other" forum. Having said that, here are my questions:

I'm about to the prep & paint stage on my fiberglass '32 coupe, and I'm trying to decide how much of that I should do myself. Keep in mind that the last car I built was in the early '80's, so Urethane is all new for me.

When I hear about $10-$20K to have a pro do my work, my knees begin to buckle. Oh, don't get me wrong. I know you PRO'S earn every penny of it. I think I just can't psychologically accept those #'s, plus I'm just hard-headed and want to do whatever is reasonable. I do have an 18'x25' garage which is freshly insulated and dry-walled, which is very clean and has loads fluorescent lighting, and which is separate from my shop. I have a 60 gallon compressor which outs out about 14.8 CF @ 90 psi. And, I have an old siphon fed gun for primer, along with two new HVLP guns from Harbor Freight, one of which is the newer, lower pressure model. I have a new AOS Professional respirator, head socks, and body suits. I've sprayed a fair amount of lacquer and acrylic enamel in the distant past. I was considering using the shop I referred to above to spray the car in, but have been warned that this may not be the smartest thing to do, and that if I insist on painting this myself, that I should at least use a booth. I thought of using 2-3 box fans, directed outward, below the garage door to vent the fumes out, and building filters for the entry door for incoming air. I've been warned that one spark from a fan motor could spell disaster. So, I don't know what to do. Should I prep, prime and wet sand everything, and pay someone to spray it all in a booth? Given what I read about quick flash times, should I just paint it in the garage, but leave the garage door open? In any case, I plan on having the frame powder coated, so that's not an issue.

Your advice is very valuable and will be appreciated. I don't want to spend more than I have to, but I don't want to be a fool either. Thanks guys

i have use bc/cc for many years what i did not like about it much is with low ligth you some times have a hard time getting the paint even .but it is fast and easy to use.if it was my car i would lay it out with enamel then go over it with a urethane clear back in the 80.s i used the ppg dau 75 over dry enamels with hardeners sand with 1000 paper i still think this is the best way to go. i think you get more paint per gallon were the base for bc/cc has alot of balance clear in it . and on some colors with the added balance clear you get less then a 1/2 a can of paint

Glad to see you onboard and posting. Welcome.


I completely understand your dilema, I couldn't justify laying out $ 10- $ 20,000 for a paint job either, although I too have an appreciation of why it costs that much for a super pro job. I simply don't have that kind of money to be throwing around.

I guess the bottom line is, how good of a job do you want? It sounds like your skill level is about like mine.......you've sprayed some things, and know the basics, so you are probably capable of turning out a decent quality job. Plus, if you choose the right paint, you can correct any mistakes later on by buffing the heck out of it.

I've mentioned this before, but at a body shop where I worked, the detail girl made the paint jobs look good, because she would sand and buff them to remove dirt and messups. We had a very good downdraft booth, but even that didn't keep all the stuff out of the wet paint. I painted my Kids VW once, and everything came out nice except for one fender, it had runs and dirt. As a last ditch effort, I wet sanded it and buffed it, and it turned out better than the rest of the car.

Brings up another point, color. Some colors are just tougher than others to paint. I find translucent colors like gold and yellow tough to get evenly sprayed.

What about doing all the prep work and having a local painter or shop do the final paint for you? I have done that in the past, and tipped the guy generously when it was over because it made the job better and easier . Some shops will allow their painters to earn extra money by using their booth like on a Saturday, when they are closed. I had my Jeep painted that way, and paid the shop $ 100 for using their booth that day.

Problem with doing it at home is it makes a heck of a mess, and significant others tend to frown of the fumes and overspray. (Don't ask me about letting the clothes dryer run while you are spraying stuff........purple nurses uniforms are not cool it seems )

Good luck,

Don

So Pat, are you suggesting using an acrylic enamel (AE) with a hardener in the place of the urethane base coat? What would the advantage be of doing that? Is it cost? Itoldyouso, I hear what you're saying about the overspray, etc. I'm on 2 acres here in Prescott, and the shop/garage I mentioned is over 100 ft from the house. Any overspray would settle on the gravel around the shop. But, doing all the prep and finish sanding and buffing, and having a pro with a booth just shoot it is what I'm considering. Like I said above, I want to save as much as I can, but I'm not gonna be stupid about this. I know the fumes are dangerous, and I really need a booth. Having to transport everything (body, doors, deck lid, 4 fenders, frame horn covers, radiator shell, 4-piece hood) back and forth from a shop in town is a bit of a hassle, but if it means having a nice end-product, then that's the way I'll have to go. Too, It would make me proud to look at a finished job that I've done all myself, but if I've done lung damage, it wouldn't be worth it. Heck, I've made it thru Vietnam, and all the way to 60 in good health. Killing off any brain cells at all wouldn't leave me with much!!

I sprayed my 'glass coupe in my garage with a good BC/CC. I made up a plywood panel with two box fans mounted to it blowing outward. The air came into the garage through some furnace filters. The good deal about HVLP is that overspray is minimized.

FYI, box fans use inductive motors (no brushes), so they don't spark. The compressor is another animal. My compressor is at the front of the garage, and that is where the air inlet was. Apparently, the incoming air kept the fumes away from the motor - either that, or I was lucky.

The other problem is lighting. I had bookoo lights in the ceiling, and added a row of 2-tube fixtures on racks on either side of the car. I still had trouble seeing.

Finally, laying down a nice, smooth coat of either BC or CC isn't easy the first time out. The car in my avitar is the first one I've painted for more than 10 years, and there were some problems - not $15,000 of problems, though.

You can expect to pay upwards of $2,000 just for materials for a decent BC/CC do-it-yourself job.

Originally Posted by rltaylor46

So Pat, are you suggesting using an acrylic enamel (AE) with a hardener in the place of the urethane base coat? What would the advantage be of doing that? Is it cost? !

did you read my post? alot of the bc use a balance clear that is not color paint but clear that get you see thru paint or many coats of paint some of the paint lines are nothing more then enamel with a dryer add to it clear that make it in to a bc/cc so your are not getting a gallon of soild paint .the urethane clear makes in finsh tough and in a less then perfect place to shot enamel is easer to sand out then a base . i have sprayed many paint jobs 100s of them not in a both. having a both is not a end to any problems i have seen paint jobs look no better or worse if the filters are dirty and to much PULL air speed in the both with a not so good seal on the both doors will pull much dirt thru

we have a local painter here, he does 10-20K amazing paint jobs in a 2 car garage. his trick is to keep the dirt down. he gets the car to its final stage ready to shoot, he lines the walls, ceiling, and floor, with clear visqueen plastic. makes a fresh bubble dirt free cell, rolls the car in, wipes the car down with a tac cloth and sprays away. with a single fan in the window to exhaust the fumes out.

Originally Posted by mooneye777

we have a local painter here, he does 10-20K amazing paint jobs in a 2 car garage. his trick is to keep the dirt down. he gets the car to its final stage ready to shoot, he lines the walls, ceiling, and floor, with clear visqueen plastic. makes a fresh bubble dirt free cell, rolls the car in, wipes the car down with a tac cloth and sprays away. with a single fan in the window to exhaust the fumes out.

done many this way for a very long time.jet wash the car blow dry it wash shop out walls and floor with dish soap and water. drain the air compeser i used a filter that used a roll of toilet paper for a fillter and one on the gun had one air hose i used just for painting . wipe the hose down and a clean spot on the bench on mix the paint and had i old tack rage to wipe the hose down every time i add paint to the cup of the gun and wipe clean the bottom of the spay gun i would clean out the air cap of the gun with thinner the shops i work at did not have a real both but just a clean room with a fan i painted car trucks and boats air planes out of rooms like this and alot of them would be 7000/10000 jobs

Check around with your friends... Should be able to find a painter with access to a booth to do the shooting for you, or rent you the booth and do it yourself. I've done bc/cc in a garage with good lighting and some extra lights mounted low using less the fed approved exhaust system. It's of course illegal to do that so I could never suggest you use that method!!!!! Friend of mine has a company that builds road and construction equipment. The paint booth is never used on evenings or weekends. The rent usually runs pizza and Diet Cokes while we're painting. Works a lot better, and definitely a lot safer. Used to have my own booth, sold the shop and wish I would have kept the spray booth!!!!!

Easy there Pat. I did read your post, as well as your last two, and at the risk of embarrassing myself, I still don't understand what you're trying to describe. Even with advanced degrees, without exposure and experience with the new paint systems, I plead ignorance. I'm trying though, so please be patient. Are you possibly describing single stage urethane? If not, PLEASE try again to get it thru my thick skull. I understand that the single stage urethanes don't produce that "mile-deep" finish, which is fine with me. I'm building a retro rod, with that 60's look. I actually like the look of the old acrylic enamels, but also understand that the urethanes are superior in terms of UV resistance, and therefore, longevity. BTW, I'm pretty sure I've decided on a red to match the Bengal Red powder coating I'll be using on the frame.

Jack, you have described the exact fan set-up I've been thinking about. Thanks for the info re the motors being inductive motors. No problem re the compressor, as mine is located in the main shop. I can, and have run hose over to this separate garage. I have a second air/water filter mounted in that second garage. What I thought I could do for intake air is to put an air filter in an open window in the rear of the garage. And, I also would mount some extra flourescent light along the walls. I wondered if visqueen might cause a static problem. Can the overspray and vapors from these urethanes actually be explosive? I've been told that by a local builder who seems to like to scare guys like me away from doing our own work.

I appreciate the advice and encouragement guys. I'm beginning to think that I should consider doing all the priming and prepping myself, and find a local painter, with a booth who can shoot the finish for me, hopefully at a reasonable price. Man, things have sure changed in the past 20+ years

one more time ppg has a true full urethane and polyurethe paints from color to clear. there are some paints that start with a enamels base and turn it to bc/cc . what i am saying that if you go with some paints they will add a balance clear or added dryer to the one stage paints. so if you get a gallon of bc paint you are only getting two parts color and two parts clear now make it bc/cc so if you go single stage and get one gallon of paint it has not been turn in to bc/cc you get all paint with out the balance clear MORE PAINT in the gallon can and if you go with enamel base and sand in and clear it you still have the uv of the urethane clear and you can sand your coats before you clear with the top coat if you have to sand your base it can be hard to sand and will have to be cover with more base. far as getting more depth that just Bs i have had mile deep paint with single enamels and urethane when you wheel it with bc/cc you are not working with the color just the clear so how you bc is put down is how it will look. you can not easly sand it flat. just the clear.. even if you go single stange paint sand it flat and clear it .it will look diffrent in color and more depth i have done black and red paint jobs that every one at cars shows say how much clear you got on that car ?? no clear

If you are unsure of the urethane bc/cc paints, try buying a small amount of it first and spraying something less important like a set of wheels or the underside of the trunklid. I think you'll find it easier to work with than most acrylic enamels.

It is purely a matter of preference, but I think DuPont's "Chromabase" paints are the easiest to use. You simply mix equal amounts of the color and activator and spray it. It sprays about like old fashioned lacquer and dries very quickly. You can use just about any acrylic urethane clear over it. I like Five Star's high solids high build clear. It's tough, easy to use, extremely durable, and a lot less expensive than the big "name brand" clears. I also use Five Star's "Quickbase-D" activator in the Chromabase colors. It works just like the DuPont "Basemaker" but costs less than half the price.

As Pat and Don both stated, the urethanes tend to be somewhat more transparent than older enamels and lacquers, so plan on an extra coat or two. Using a color-compatible sealer before painting is a good idea to help keep the color even.

I have been spraying cars with all kinds of paints in the garage at home since I was eighteen. Make sure you have appropriate ventilation and, most importantly, a good respirator...

There is a company out there that is now making a low VOC acrylic lacquer automotive paint. The name is Dura_-something. Can't remember the name. It would be easier than trying a base coat clear coat or single stage urethane.

The overspray from any type of paint is explosive - as is any fine particle mist. Grain mills blow up because there is too much dust in the air. That being said, if you eliminate all sources of ignition, you have no explosion - particularly if the area is well ventilated.

I think JRobinson's advice on paint is pretty much right on. I used Sherwin Williams on my '34. It works really well, but it's very expensive.

If you're going to paint in your garage, wash everything down - a couple of times, and get everything out of there except your car and your paint bench. I'm not sure I'd tape visqueen to all the walls. I've done that, and its a pain - and the visqueen attracts and holds dust. It may be easier just to repaint the garage walls when you're done.

A few years ago, I built a whole visqueen room in my garage using 2x4s for a frame. It took me days to build, and cost a lot of $$. I did just as well on my current ride by just cleaning up the garage. I may have to do a little repainting, but what the heck. Wall painting with a roller is pretty easy.

Remember, you really need to clean up the room twice. Empty your garage, clean it up, get all your priming done and everything sanded and ready for the color. Then totally clean out the garage again. Priming and blocking generates more dust than a Texas windstorm.

Originally Posted by Corvette64

There is a company out there that is now making a low VOC acrylic lacquer automotive paint. The name is Dura_-something. Can't remember the name. It would be easier than trying a base coat clear coat or single stage urethane.

Found the Lacquer. Finally. It was Dupli not Dura....
http://www.duplicolor.com/index.html