Thread: I wanna paint my car.but I've never done it

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I can't add much to what has been said here except that fillers have a time frame where they are very sandable. I'm a big believer in hand blocking everything even if it takes more time.. the nice thing abolut urethenes is that you can rework and reclear until you get it right. It never comes out perfect on the first try...I used to refuse to work in anything but lacquer and now I won't touch the stuff..

Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT

First of all the urethanes are far more durable and long-lasting than lacquer.....and I used lacquer for over 30 years! The real problem today is that nobody stocks it....no new color formulas are available in it....and it will eventually be outlawed, like it is in California. When I finally made the decision to switch, I had 350 cans of lacquer....but the last store selling lacquer, in a town of about a million people, called me and said they had been stocking their lacquer mixing system for ONE customer.....me! Now I can only get black, white, and clear, without going out of town for it. I gave my lacquer away, and switched.

I have also used acrylic enamel. Acrylic enamels are tough, especially with a hardener, but nobody makes custom colors in it, and the urethanes are just as easy to spray. Maybe easier.

Since a painter may have different types of work, why not use the paint that is most easily available, and with the largest selection of products? Some of the alternatives would be to try to mix products, or not be able to get the same paint to fix it with when a fender gets bent in five years.

Thanks for the informative information, I've never painted base coat, clear coat but maybe I will try this winter. I still have the explosion proof fan from my old house. I have read about the hazards of not having the right intake of air so I'll have to get that worked out. I don't think the charcoal filter will be good enough, I hope I'm wrong because it's still in good shape. We can't but lacquer in our area anymore. I just thought that lacquer was safer on the lungs, the hardeners are bad as when I use them in the 80's. I'll keep reading, and thanks again a person is never too old to learn about whats better. I was seeing the high cost of materials is really high today.

Richard

You will need a remote air mask or hood for the primers and clear. Charcoal is okay for non catalyzed paint.

Yes, paint is expensive. It seems to go up 10% per year, no matter what the economy is doing. The upside is that if you do it right, and take good care of it, quality paint will last as long as you have the car. That will save the materials AND labor you might have bought years from now. :-)

An HVLP gun helps. You can buy about 1/3rd less paint, since it puts more on the car, and less on the floor.

Thanks again, I have a low cost HVLP gun but if I'm going to pay the high cost of materials I'll get a name brand gun. I can pratice with cheaper gun first.

Richard

For the economy painter, I've found painting early in the morning when everything is calm (and the bugs are still asleep ) is the best for a clean paint job. I once did a custom paint job on a p.u., 25 yrs. ago, base coat clear coat. Out of necessity I painted it outside. I shot the clear coat early in the morning as soon as the dew could be wiped off & surface stay dry. I had a couple small specs in the hood that were easily removed with a cut & buff. Looked as good as a paint booth/dryer job.
I admit that result probably wouldn't always be repeatable, but it worked that time. Even since then, in a shop, I always leave the final clear coat for early morning. NEVER PAINT AT NIGHT UNDER LIGHTS. Unless you're painting a bug zapper.

Originally Posted by shine

" whatever's there when you start .gonna be there when your done "
paint guns dont fix sh$t , they just make it shiny . good luck with it.

I'm just starting on the bodywork to get my car painted so I found a lot of this info very helpful, thanks. How long can fiberfiller be on the car before you can't sand it?? I just put some on today and didn't get a chance to finish sanding and now I have to go back to work for a few days.

Shine-that's one of the best lines I've heard in a long time .

Sean

Iv'e read enough to hurt my eyes and I 'm reasonably confident in my abilities to perform most of the task's to get the vehicle sanded slicker than snail snot( that means real smoothe to the folks up north ), primered and with little reservation I'll attempt to lay down a base coat with out butchering it. I figure I can wet sand and re-coat enough to learn to do it right. The hard way, like always, but that clear coat steadely haunts me. Is it as difficult as I think it is?

What is a remote air mask or a charcoal for that matter Hotrod? And what is non-catalyzed? There are kits on the site you suggested for like $80.00. I sassume I want to avoid these? I'm not a big fan of cheap stuff and free is worse!

Oh! is one color easier to use than another? Cause I'm leaning toward orange like on IC2's outfit. Ausome car by-the-way, and thanks for the block info. Quite an extinsive aray, nothing like I would have imagined.

Should I be concerned with hose length for pressure drop reasons?

I would assume the lubricator on my compresser should be by-passed or perhaps deleted during the painting proccess.

You're scarin' me Willys! Will it be safe to use the squirell cages from these old furnaces and adequitly vent and filter my booth? What exactly is explotion proof? I would like to think that explotion proof motors would be standard issue in a GAS furnace. Most of these units are maybe 5 yrs. old. I take the older ones to the scrap yard. Hey!, it's not like I'm out there selling ice cubes to eskimos or anything, mostly it's the previous contractor that has sold an inadiquate unit to the customer. (so typical for New Mexico) These blower wheels also provide 5 different speeds as well. If any one ever needs fans for a home booth project you could go to any HVAC Contractor and they would gladly give you as many used furnaces you would want, then just pull 2 screws and slide out the whole blower assembly and the schematic is provided on the motor. It has to be better than $10.00 boxf ans from Wally world. And---- it's FREE!

I'm accualy studying about running 2 trunk lines over head for the booth and having it blow fresh air downwards over the project and then have 2 blowers on either side pulling out the bad air.

Pardon me for my prying. I'll try not to be a pain in the ass (my Ex was constantly reminding me of how good I was at that) but knowledge is power and I'd like to be armed to the teeth with it when I go to the supply house in hopes that I'll be able to disguise most of my ingnorance concening this existential vocation and not receive a severe pencil whipping from some counter salesman on commision looking at me and seeing a steak and lobster dinner.

All of your commments are greatly appreciated, there's no subtitute for hands on intelligents from real people. Very knowledgable!

If there's anybody living higher than 2000 ft. above sea level and are not familiar with the term D-RATING I can show you a way to save approximately $500.00 anually not to mention 10 years off the life of your equipment and possibly your home from distruction, (it happens a lot more than the media portrays) just ask me. Accually if there are any questions concerning H.V.A.C. feel free to inquire. That's Heating, Ventilation, Air, Conditioning for those of you not familiar with this nomanclature. There are a lot of great products that have just come out on the market.

These are photographs of the Camaro in conjunction with comments for areas I found to be Possibly daunting procedures.
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/PIC_0034.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/PIC_0042.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/PIC_0043.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/PIC_0048.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/PIC_0053.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/PIC_0054.jpg

Well, it looks like I'm in the market for a compresser if you truly believe my outfit is inadiquate to spray the whole car. It seems like such a waste of time to work in sections what with clean-up and dialing in the gun every time, unless you think the practice would be good for me.What if I added another tank? Or am I grabbing at staws? I'm really proud (or was) of my Frankenstien compresser. I have another 60 gallon if you think it's worth it. I'd like to think there's a way to make it work.I would REALLY like to spray the whole car with it.
I have a drip leg installed to catch condensation and a filter as well. Iv'e not found any publication concerning this subject. Are there other apperatices (or apperati) I need to consider?
I hate to ask but is Campbell Hausfield worth a darn as far as spray guns are concerned? I mean just to get me through but do a nice job? They seem pretty cheap.

Originally Posted by IC2

Rick,
I'm sure that others will chime - but here we go:

Your compressor - It probably wont make it for a full car, but for panel painting it might work fine.Buy all of your paint at the same time and if in several quart cans, need to be mixed for color consistency. You will also have to make sure that your compressed air is dry - and that's another entire subject for discussion.

Sanding blocks are almost a personal thing. I'll show you in a photo some of what I use.

As far as blowers - just make sure you are pushing air over the surface instead of drawing it over UNLESS you are sure the motor is explosion proof. Paints and their solvents can get explosive with the correct mixture - then bang.

HVLP = High Volume Low Pressure and the best are gravity feed. You need between 10 and 15 cfm depending on the gun make for them to work right.

Urethane with a Base Coat/Clear Coat combination works the best and is the easiest though not necessarily the cheapest for a newbie to use. It will be the same as new car paints and most custom paint jobs

Water Based - not for the average guy. TV shows really don't tell you how difficult any paint job is - they tend to gloss over the hard stuff.

Lacquer - old technology and really not a good way to go in today's world.

Primer - epoxy is the best while the lacquer is the worst for protection with what is commonly called 2K in between and is a urethane base. Regular lacquer primer is NOT water resistant.

Your trailer will be a good place to start - but you do need that book I suggested if for no other reason then to get an idea on what it really takes.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...dingblocks.jpg

And what I'm building:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...ld/Gone-on.jpg

I cannot for the life of me find that book you suggested! Do have any more information to offer me?

Originally Posted by IC2

It ain't easy.

It takes a lot of work

It takes a fair level of tools

It takes a fair amount of money

It takes days to months to do right

Now, with that said, there are a couple of pretty good books published by HP which is a good starting point.

Then we need to talk about tools, equipment and paints:

A minimum 10cfm compressor, but bigger is better. A mid range price HVLP spray gun. A DA (dual action) sander is very handy. If you have rust, a mig or gas welder is needed. A set of hand tools is necessary. Several different sizes and shapes sanding blocks are needed. Sand paper from 80 to 2000 grit will be needed - and that starts at about a buck a sheet to about $2 - and 75 - 100 for a good job. Then there are the fillers and primers - and these depend on the body condition - 2K primers start at about $20 a quart and go up, filler is $40 gallon and up. Then the paint - base coat with clear coat for protection is the best - and many of them are toxic without the proper protection. These paints are very expensive - primers from $30/quart and up, base coats from $400 gallon and (mostly) up, clear coats from $100 a gallon.

Now - still interested? Remember seeing all those cars with splotches of primer on them? These are the folks who didn't know what it would take to paint a car right. We can and will help, but getting this out on the table first can save a lot of later grief

It's all in the prep work. That seams to be the re-acurring statement.

Originally Posted by Sinister

That's what I thought when I painted my S-10

Spraying the paint wasn't that hard, the surface prep was!

The truck turned out looking like s***!!! On the plus side I learned a lot of things "not to do" . Have since read several books on the subject, and bought better equipment to work with.

When my next project comes, I'm gonna be ready!!!

OK - compressor. The biggest you can afford. Mine is not huge, but does have the cfm rating, which is the buzz word along with duty cycle. If you buy a 60 gallon tanked compressor but it only has a 35% duty cycle, it wont last long. A 30 gallon with a 100% duty cycle will run all day at full output. Be very careful of the units you get at the big box stores. My first one blew and they replaced it with a bigger better.

DO NOT use your lubricator and DO NOT use the air hose that you used with it as there still might be some oil carry over.

As far as a dryer, a 50 foot run of copper or cleaned black iron with a couple of valved drip legs seem to work the best. DO NOT use PVC. It will fracture plus has no cooling value. At the end of the line, add a pretty good air dryer. I have a cheapo Harbor Freight as a pre-filter to knock out any crud, then a Sharpe for final clean. I'll post a photo later - it works.http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...irfilters1.jpg

I'll dig up my copy of the book(s) and give you better information - mine came from Border's. The best IMO, one is the book on the left and by Motorbooks Workshop, ISBN 0-7603-1583-3 http://www.motorbooks.com/.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...Paintbooks.jpg

A Campbell Hausfield gun will probably do fine for primers. I've had good luck with my Devillbiss Finishline 3, but really love my Iwata LPH 400 photo here - but too much $$ for casual use. http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...hild/Iwata.jpg

To do one car, a full face mask with a charcoal cannister MIGHT work for you. I had to buy a supplied air system as I found that I am allergic to the clears and epoxies. This stuff is nasty - iso cyanates (cyanide ??) - in sufficient quantities can mess up your lungs forever - and each individual has a different tolerance level. I vote for the supplied air system. Mine is a low end Hobbyaire

Colors - for a newbie - stay away from highly metallic paints, especially silver - that is unless you like tiger stripes. The orange that I used is very forgiving but you do need light gray or white primers under it as it will take more coats to cover then they say

To answer Sean's question - filler can always be sanded but it gets harder as it ages. It just takes more sandpaper

Here you go, this is what you need to paint your car

A computer to tell you what to mix together.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...eencapture.jpg

A scale hooked up to the computer to tell you that you are mixing it correctly.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...rizedscale.jpg

The inventory to support the exact color you want to mix.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/.../inventory.jpg

The paint booth so you can spray it in a heat/humidity controlled environment.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/data/500/booth.jpg

A decent set of air compressors so that you have enough volume to do the entire vehicle at once.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...ompressors.jpg



Bill S.

Thanks a lot pard, you've been a great help. A virtual plethera of statistics. No but seriously, thanks

Originally Posted by like2gofast

Thanks a lot pard, you've been a great help. A virtual plethera of statistics. No but seriously, thanks

Did I mention having the right guns for the day/materials/temperature/humidity/etc


Bill S.

PS: Hopefully you saw the my other posts in regards to paint the last two days

How could anyone resist trying to paint this car, it's begging for it.



http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/PIC_0063.jpg