Thread: Change of paint to "water born" type

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With all of the talk about the "change in paint color and style" that we have seen over the years, I hear almost nothing talked about with the current changes we are going through in California away from solvent based paint to water born paint for automotive use.

I'm finsihing my block sanding in prep for the top coat on my Highboy and have some reservations about quality, durability, ease of touch up, of the new (to me anyway) paint. I understand it's been used in europe for many years but when I think of waterborn paint, all I remember the paint "falling off" the roof of my then new 1981 Cutlass company car, LOL.

Just this week I learned that the single company that supplies touch up paint for all of the motorcycle companies in this country is no longer able to ship their touch up paints into most parts (read all metro counties) of California because it contains Xylene. The company is Color Rite and has been the "go to" company in our industry for years.

The times are certainly changing.

I suspect that 20 years from now we may all be using it. The technology has improved, but the feedback I hear is basically what you are saying.

Many airbrush artists, and some custom painters are switching to Autoair paints, and they say that once you get used to using it, it is pretty good stuff. The big problem now seems to be primers and topcoats.

Still little more then a rumor around here.....I guess one of the few good points of living out here in the sticks a decade or so behind the rest of the world!!!!!

It will most likely be sooner then 20 years when we all switch to Waterborne , as its being pushed all across the US , and I will be shooting it in my shop the 15th of this month , cant wait either as the peeling paint of years ago was due to an E-coat problem not a base coat problem . Was drying to fast and the base had no time to LOCK into the E-coat , and with the help of the UV rays , the base didnt have a chance .

I shoot anywhere from 3 - 7 jobs a day in a downdraft heat makeup booth , and just switching to water borne will be like not spraying 2500 cars a year , with the solvent type bases used now .

Waterborne has come light years in advances in the past 15 years .
What most need to worry about is , if you dont do it for a living and have a license ( which is the next level ) to spray you wont be sold paint
I just went to a seminar to get licensed for VOC compliancy , good for 3 years .
EPA & OSHA are trying to come up with ways to stop the hobbiest from just blowing it into the ozone from their garages .

Well off to work

the only parts of a water born system that is water based is the base color . the primer ,sealer,clear is still thinner reduced system .

Solvent base color uses more solvent ( most solvent base colors use a 1:1 mixture ) ,therefore putting out more VOC's then the 2k primers , sealers , and clears to apply , and some of those primer , sealer & Clear products only require catalyst to apply , or use a small amount in the reduction ratio for spraying , so the VOC content is less .

And some Companies waterborne systems are not truly waterborne , as they require a type solvent for reduction , not deionized water like some .

But there is a company here in Kansas that is developing a true Waterborne Clear . Dont know how well it works or lasts .

Hey thanks for all of this paint information guys!

Jay, I don't often find anything to argue about in your paint advice, but I think we will all be seeing waterborne become standard in much less than twenty years. I guess we will just have to revisit this topic in twenty years and see who was closer in their estimate.

Spraytec, I really doubt that the EPA and OSHA cares much about the health of a handfull of "sixty year old" hot rodders shooting primer in their driveway. Hell we will all be gone in a few years anyway, LOL. I'd bet they are more concerned about all of the gangbanger's sniffing xylene fumes from the spray cans as they spray grafiti on all of the highway signs and sound walls in Orange County! After all they are "the next generation", right?

Seriously, I have four grandkids and I'd like to at least think that I will do my part to leave this place a little cleaner when I'm done enjoying life.

I painted my motorcycle with autoair color waterbase ,mango sparkel look great put 4 coats of clear then sanded with 800 tape and painted silver flames with skulls then recleared whole bike . A year latter the mango faded under all that clear with great uv protection. Would not use again as they are dye tints.

Originally Posted by dave severson

still little more then a rumor around here.....i guess one of the few good points of living out here in the sticks a decade or so behind the rest of the world!!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

would you ship? :lol:

I have been shooting Aquabase Plus since the first of June .
Its an excellent product , but it has slowed me down in a production shop I am in , it requires its own system , as its not recommended to switch out different primers , sealers and clears , like alot of people like to do now days .
It also requires that you step down to finer grits for prepping , so 400-500 grit scratches will pop through .
It also has no lifting cycle like solvent bases have .
Doesnt chip as easily .
Its very easy to shoot , has good coverage , but it will require a good flowing booth to help in drying , plus you need to blow dry each coat before the next coat goes on ! If you try and apply the clear while its still a tad wet , the clear will die back .
What do you think the car manufacturers have been putting on vehicles the past 10-15 years , its all been waterborne .
It has excellent color matches , better then any solvent base out there .

Its not the end of the world , if you learn the prep process ,and use the right materials its just as good as solvent based products .

It will get to a point where the Hobbiest painters will not be able to purchase refinish products to do it in their garage . As there are things going in place if you dont have the right credentials you wont be sold paint . it will take awhile to be put in place but its coming .

Originally Posted by SprayTech

It will get to a point where the Hobbiest painters will not be able to purchase refinish products to do it in their garage . As there are things going in place if you dont have the right credentials you wont be sold paint . it will take awhile to be put in place but its coming .

I guess, I better purchase all the paint I will need to finish all and any projects I plan on doing, till death do us part..

[QUOTE=John Palmer;353585]Hey thanks for all of this paint information guys!

Jay, I don't often find anything to argue about in your paint advice, but I think we will all be seeing waterborne become standard in much less than twenty years. I guess we will just have to revisit this topic in twenty years and see who was closer in their estimate.

John, I hope I have to retire before then! I hate changing anything in my paint system! I grow a new ulcer every time! Changing to waterbase might require two ulcers! {:-(

Originally Posted by Ken Thurm

would you ship? :lol:

Well, let's see.... Pat wants to buy my welder, Ken needs some paint....a few more items and I could pay for my trip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or I'll just load it in my '71 pick-em-up, drive it out there, sell it and fly home.... It's a cinch there's nothing selling here in the poverty belt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE=HOTRODPAINT;366295]

Originally Posted by John Palmer

Hey thanks for all of this paint information guys!

Jay, I don't often find anything to argue about in your paint advice, but I think we will all be seeing waterborne become standard in much less than twenty years. I guess we will just have to revisit this topic in twenty years and see who was closer in their estimate.

John, I hope I have to retire before then! I hate changing anything in my paint system! I grow a new ulcer every time! Changing to waterbase might require two ulcers! {:-(

LOL, I hear ya Jay! I am at about the "I can't change anything" stage in my life also.

I have had my roadster apart for exactly "one year" at this point. It's been media blasted, powder coated in primer, block sanded with 80 and then I started on all of the final body work. The frame is powder coated in semi gloss black with the rear axle. It's taken me a lot more weekends than I expected but it's finally all smooth and blocked to 400 grit, ALL TWENTY SEVEN parts, on both sides! I'm in it about $2K in materials at this point, and it's looking good. You were correct in your previous advice to me that 95% is the goal for a street driven car. Mine's not going to "be perfect" but it should still look very straight in the dark maroon color. The fit and gaps will be tight. I have much respect for the time and effort you guys spend on doing a custom paint job and all of the body work under it.

I've been asking around to have someone spray it for me. It seems that our time has come, what I understand October 1st was the dead line in Southern California for the start of water born paint sales. I'm not against Waterborn paint, but I also do not want to be on "someone's learning curve" with a car that has taken me hundreds of hours to get to this point. I think I have a guy to spray it with "old conventional based" paint that he already has in his stock. One "custom paint" guy gave me a bid of $6K "just to shoot and buff it", and I had to supply all materials! No thanks! So we will see what happens in the next couple of weeks.

I wouldn't mind changing things ...especially for the better ....but sometimes I get "bit".

A few years back, a friend suggested a different body filler. I tried it and liked it, so I switched. About three months later, a customer told me a reddish stain had appeared. I recognized it was exactly where there was filler, and contacted the manufacturer and told them everything I had used. They told me that wasn't from their filler.

Later I was talking to the HOK tech line, and mentioned it. They said it happens whenever you use a lacquer product over it, and the company was well aware of it. There was no warning on the can. I eventually had to fix three jobs on my own nickle. ...then there was a clear that would blush weeks after completion! (That company lied to me too, when I asked questions!!!)

....and I have several more stories!

So when my paint system is reliable and long-lasting, I DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING!!!