Thread: Rat rod debate

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To me a rat rod is what I call a poor boy hot rod.
It starts with a guy with kids,house payment,truck payment, crapy paying job wanting to build a hot rod that he has dreamed about since he was a lil kid.
Due to the crapy pay, he has to get his parts from a local junk yard. He does the best he can and decides to go to a few car shows to gets some tips and ideas for his rod build.To make sure they know what he is asking he takes his unfinished rod to the show.
this part might piss some people off.
When he gets there the rich, my crap dont stink, i got a $60000 trailer queen that I hope will get me laid, so called hot rodders who havnt even changed there own oil, make it clear that they dont want him to park his rod near theres.
After the trailer queener RUP (rich urban poser) gets done picking apart his car, he tells the RUP , lets line em up?
The RUP tells him he wont run his $60000 rod with a $2000 hoopty.
Pised off an looking for a beer tent,he meets some average joes like him and thay talk about the RUPs and how they are trashing what hot rodding used to mean. Was it not started with 1 guy telling another that my car is faster than yours?
After some hot rod storys,build tips a part swaping,one guy says , I bet it would piss off the RUPs if i put a tractor grill on my rod, another says it would get there goat if i chop my top and not grind the welds, and so on. Let the rebellion begin.there is a mag that is out on rat rods thats name explains it all. Its called rebel rodz.
Was the yellow duece in american grafitti a hot rod with a chopped top? Ya.
Joe bobs model A sits a bit lower,doesnt have alot of chrome,its a differant color but it is taged as a rat.
Is it ,if you make $100,000 a year your a hot rodder and anything under 30K your a rat rodder.
I love sooping up anything I can get my hands on so I consider my self a true hot rodder wether i got paint on my rod or not.Im building my rod for me not you. If you dont like it dont look at it.
The only thing that burns my pooper is the punk,trailer queen, RUBs that sit and pick, mine is better than yours and call them selves hot rodders.
Well dont let your mouth write checks your azz cant cash. Lets line em up and watch the smoke fly.
Im sure theres a few bike guys on here and they know what im talkn about when someone shows up with there sled on a trailer at some of the ralleys.
Trailers are for boats, if your a true rodder, rat,hot, even a RUP,DRIVE IT and you will get something better than some shinny plastic trophy, youll get RESPECT.
Next time you see a rat rod at a show actually stop and look at it with a open mind and if you see something that doesnt look right or unsafe,kindly mention it and offer some tips. Hot rodding is like a brother hood but it seems to be falling apart over this hot and rat debate. i have respect for hot rodders and what is called rat rodders, but i dont have much for RUPs. I dont want some of you to get me wrong.If you got the money to buy the expensive parts and $10000 paint job than go for it, but DRIVE IT,lite them tires up and enjoy being a true rodder.

Let me take the other side.

This doesn't apply to every person. Some are just unfriendly, no matter their age or finances.... so I am speaking in generalities.

I have heard much more hateful talk from "ratrodders" than I ever heard from any other rod group in my 45 years of involvement. In fact, many older guys have jumped into the rat rod look, and are having fun with it too.

I think another problem is that older guys like me have spent decades trying to make each car a little nicer than the last, and we are proud of the workmanship that we have learned along the way.

It is hard for us to look at a build that has intentionally been made to look rusty, amatuerish, or unfinished... and get all excited about it. Another thing that keeps us at a distance is to have some relative newcomers to the hobby tell us that it's all about money, and tell us that we are snobby, when the truth is that many of us have spent decades making this the large, popular, and enjoyable hobby it is.

There is nothing wrong with building a car on a budget, and finishing it as you can. Just remember.... many of us raised families, and worked at trades for many years, until we can make that next car "the best thing we've done yet". We have stood in your shoes....and you will stand in ours some day. Hopefully you won't have some young guy telling you that you are rude, and don't knopw anything about rods and customs. I have been lectured by guys as little as 1/4th my age.... and that is younger than some of my shop rags. One was 17! What would he know about the "way it was done"?

I'll close saying this....and I have found it to be true. "What you put out into the world, is what comes back to you". If you put forward "friendliness" and "respect".... maybe that is what you will get back.

Now, If some of us guys here can do something to help with your project...ask away.

Hi coreyvett, I'm a fan of all types of hotrods including ratz as long as they're not too rediculous. In your text you are describing (jmo) 2 different types of cars, those being an entry level hotrod and a ratrod which is (again my opinion) a rebellious effort at parting from the norm of traditional and ultra hi-buck showcars by incorporating radical and bizarre designs and features. I agree nobody should look down their nose at anyone elses ride no matter what it is or the cost. I've seen some really cool stuff on a lot of the rats, and I've also seen some really well built rats morph into beautiful hotrods while retaining the designs they were built with and I think we'll be seeing a lot more like that over time because eventually everyone likes "shiny stuff" or a well done flat/matte job. Don't forget, a lot of these trailer-queens and hi-buck cars have been re-done many times and a bunch started out as entry level hotrods and the guys don't want to risk screwing around and messing up what took them years to accomplish.As far as the "holy sh*t" money cars I like to see what kind of ideas the money contest provides and maybe it's an idea I can use in a hotrod (but of course in my budget ) low that is. Both sides of the fence need to relax a little and accept each other as car guys because there are over-zealous a-holes on both sides. I had promised myself I would'nt get into one of these rat vs shiny threads but those are a couple of my opinions/observations. Enjoy what you build cuz, because if we don't, we're doing it wrong. Keep cruisin'

Sorry about the giant paragraph

This old question about Rats vs the rest of the car world come up from time to time, probably to often. The always seem to be raised by some one who is a PRO- ponent of the Rat Rod Scene, I do not think I have ever seem this debate raised by anyone else.

The debate usually starts out with why and how Rat Rods have been put down by some dude with a High Dollar car. Yet in everyone of these debates that (I) I have seen it is actually the Rat Rod guy putting down people. The argument is usually about "If you have a REAL Hot Rod you drive it were ever you go. Boats are for trailers is a comment I have heard at least 50 Times, and never once have I seen it applied correctly.

Think about it, some guy in southern Ca wanting to go to the Pigeon Forge show in Tennessee, is "NOT" a real Hot Rodder unless he loads his wife and his three kids into his 1934 Ford Roadster and drives them across country with the wind and bugs in there hair and teeth. Never mind the fact that for this 5,200 mile round trip he has a perfectly good 2010 Dually Crew Cab and a enclosed trailer setting in his drive way. Come on dude "MAN UP" and drive that Hot Rod, or don't even bother to show up. I mean come on you don't think someone might actually like to see it if you didn't drive it?

I am afraid that today the real "Prejudice" lies with the Rat Rodder's and not with the rest of the Hot Rodding world. An example of that would be any of the "KillBillet" shows. At KillBillet they have a list of rules two pages long of what they do and do not accept to simply gain entrance to the show. On the reverse side of that coin there is not a single "Major" car show that I know of were Rat Rods are not accepted, and they have entered and competed at
most of those major shows across the country. Including the old Oakland Roadster Show or the World Most Beatiful Roadster Show. At those shows a well designed and executed Rod Rat is more than welcome.

The arguement is turning out to be an old one. There is and should always be room for all of these cars, we are after all a group with a very similiar interest.

I well built car will always speak for itself. What it cost to build should never be the most important part of any car. If you can build a car for a few dollars man thats very cool, but me personally I also dont look down on a car built with money, there not really my kind of deal, but I don't reject them just because of there price tag....

Roland

I don't see it as a matter of money at all. In the beginning of what is now known as rat rodding the cars may well have been just a low buck build, but today many rat rods cost as much as the traditional show cars. I'm unable to understand why it's become cool to have a rusted tractor radiator shell, welded together chain used as a tie rod, NO floorboards, or some of the other bizar things I've seen on them. when those things are done, you can not convince me it's due to the builder not being able to afford anything better. it's not a matter of cost at all. heck.. I've never made over 30K a year in my life, but I've built many a hot rod. they may not have been covered in chrome or 20K paint jobs, but every one was a safe and dependable ride.
I still say "here here" to the staf writers statement in Hot Rod Magazine of a few months ago.

"Rat Rods are what Gen Xer's think the 50's and 60's were like, none of us drove around in cars that outlandish, these kids are more concerned with looking like they are into cars then actually being into them. For us building a car was about speed, for them it's tacking as much rusted crap on a car as possible"

I truely believe that the Rat Rod craze will seriously change the sport of hot rod building for the worse. when a few of the wrong people are killed in them, and the lawyers and polititians get involved, there will be (more) new laws that restrict building any car in your own garage.
politians and lawyers don't know the difference between a rat rod, a 10K street rod, or a 50K+ show car. to them all "home built" rods will be labled the same.
I know there are many rat rods builders who do excellent work and are very safety consious, but those builders need to start making changes in the other part of their sports catagory. and very soon IMHO.

Russ

if i was rich.
i would build a very expensive car.
but since i am not, i am merely pouring all of my resources into the very best vehicle i am capable of creating.
rust = sloppy ,unfinished.
i'll be damned if i will put time and money into a shoddily made ,dirty looking car.
it seems to me that some rat rodders are trying to make the crappiest car they can.
i have a restored,clean, vintage willys jeep that must be trailered because it doesnt go fast enough to be highway legal.
does that make it a trailer queen?
not on a 4x4 trail it doesnt.....

BTW i call mine a hotrod

well, often I see Rat Rods that are unsafe, and some that are just plain dangerous.. and the owners like to play that ' tough guy ' image/ disrespectful to others.. if a rat shows even the slightest bit of being unsafe, I will look past it.. then there are 'rats' that are well done, not 1/2 thrown togther rust buckets. they might not have paint or even a windshield, but has brakes and some sort of permanent seating, and the owners are plesent.. those rats, I look over and take lots of pictures of.

my project is a 'rat rod'. it will be basic, no/ little interior ( upolstered seats ).. probably have a 350/350 combo ( cheap/ reliable ). might even have 4 wheel disc brakes ( if I find a disc brake rear end ).. it started as a pile of steel, but arleady resembles somthing of the 1930's, at less than the cost of a basic T bucket 'Kit'.. I'v got $600 in it, have $1k in front end parts ( I will use a painted speedway spring behind front end ) to get. engine and trans will cost less than $1k.. I should be able to come in under $4,500 and have a brand new car

I don't mind safely constructed budget Hot Rods, nor do I mind the in your face rat rods......

What I do mind is someone assuming that just because my car is in a trailer when I arrive I must be a poser or something.... Assumptions are a dangerous thing to make. Some of us with the trailer queens, actually the majority of us have built every bit of the car in the trailer... And now you want to tell me I'm not a Hot Rodder because I have billet on my car, some of which I made on my own lathe and my own mill that I bought with my own hard earned money... So, because of 45 years of nothing but building Hot Rods with my own hands and my own money now I'm not a real Hot Rodder because I have a Featherlite trailer and $50K plus invested in my car, plus the 2 or 3 years of labor??????

Like Roland brought up, I'm just too dang old to make a 2,000 mile round trip to and from an event in a small car with stiff suspension and a 10 mpg engine!!! I've paid my dues, slept beside my roadster in a sleeping bag and now if I have a room at the Ramada and my car arrives in a trailer, I guess I just really don't care what you think!!!

And this is just for you, Corey....This is very much a family oriented site, the members here just don't tolerate swearing and cussing in the forums... Your point would have been made equally well minus the swearing....

Well you guys just taught this old dog new terminology.I thought a "Rat Rod" was a barn find with a BBC.

Envy with the root being money shouldn't draw lines between any Rodders.

Truth is that the numbers of interested youth has fallen off dramatically.

We all should be sensitive to that fact,not wasting time with destructive dissension.

A open mind accepting everyone's entry into the sport is truly the base this sport started with.

If there are snobs out there,it is their problem and not ours.It is their very small world they live in anyways.

I lead my life with respecting work done by the owner of the rod.

I am again revisiting medal shaping and I am amazed at the craftsmanship I see here at all levels.The talent is just outrageous.Just the thought you guys take a very,very,old car and bring it back from a certain rusty death and what all that involves is just mind boggling.

So I am not drawing any lines in the sand here.

To be exact, I got hooked on cars at the '62 U.S. Nationals, at the age of 13. I got involved at 15 with my own car... painted my first car by 16... rebuilt my first engine by 17... had built a street rod from bare rails with a friend by 18... and helped build a B/G car by 20. By 23 I was painting bikes and cars for others, and building frame-up projects for myself on the side. That makes my involvement 42 years.... and the last 25 of it has been full-time. Not bad for a guy who doesn't know what true hot rodding is!

I can remember when, as kids, we thought any kind of a custom or hot rod was cool! We felt a kinship with other guys who also had the "mechanical gene", so it didn't matter what he built... how he built it... how much he spent... trailer or no trailer... he was a "brother car maniac"! I hope that comes back, because I still feel the same way. Just be nice to me, and I will return the favor.

Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT

To be exact, I got hooked on cars at the '62 U.S. Nationals, at the age of 13. I got involved at 15 with my own car... painted my first car by 16... rebuilt my first engine by 17... had built a street rod from bare rails with a friend by 18... and helped build a B/G car by 20. By 23 I was painting bikes and cars for others, and building frame-up projects for myself on the side. That makes my involvement 42 years.... and the last 25 of it has been full-time. Not bad for a guy who doesn't know what true hot rodding is!

I can remember when, as kids, we thought any kind of a custom or hot rod was cool! We felt a kinship with other guys who also had the "mechanical gene", so it didn't matter what he built... how he built it... how much he spent... trailer or no trailer... he was a "brother car maniac"! I hope that comes back, because I still feel the same way. Just be nice to me, and I will return the favor.

i decided i wanted a rod at the tender age of 46 (this year)
it has always been a dream i dismissed as impossible.
then i met an old rodder that is helping me make my dream a reality.
by next summer i will be driving that dream.

P.S.
HOTRODPAINT
if you ever make it to the 4 corners area.
look me up.
i'll buy ya a beer.

I might go just for that! :-)~

Ya all must have taken it the wrong way.There are exceptions for trailered rides like was posted.Like a 5000 mile round trip with the family and you built it. Im not just a new kid to hot rodding, but I dont know everything and I have a lot of respect for ya all who BUILD YOUR CAR. A better desription of a RUP. is someone who buys there way into the hot rod world and doesnt even turn a wrench.I have read alot of posts here and that is why I joined, ya all are true rodders.I do apolagize if some of the language was ruff and if some of ya all thought I was talking about you. I was venting after a run in with a RUP.I am building a 1927 dodge and a 50 dodge, and the first thing outa his mouth is why are you building a %$#@ rat rod? I removed the fenders and engine and I have a mok up engine sitting in it with a dummy s10 rearend in it and had it sitting outside of my garage while I am working on my 50 dodge.Also the last show before winter I took my parts chaser, a 52 plymouth to a show with one of my firebirds and the same guy and his buddys ask why am I ratn my 52 and that rats should be band from shows.I lowered it and the fenders I replaced are in primer. I dont think its a rat,its a hot rod that I have not finished yet. a good friend was building a model A Hot rod and was trashed about it being a rat rod, so he made it as crazy and wild as he could just to get there goat.I personally thought he wasted a good car but I understand where he was coming from.There are some real scary junkers that were built by some people that have the IQ of a dead gold fish. I understand how it upsets people with big money and buckets of elbow grease in there rods.most of you guys that have been rodding for along time must have started with a old car that took a bit of time to do and limited cash to do it. Aperantly my venting went in the wrong direction that it was intended.Let me try to clean it up.
A rup is a man that knows nothing about cars, buys one allready done with out turning one wrench and says he is a full fledge rodder.
I do not like unsafe junk mobiles which is what most people are tagging as a rat rod.
the name rat rod is being thrown around loosly and that some of us poor boy rodders are getting put down for building ther rods alittle bit at a time. It is the older true rodders that can save the rod scene with storys and tips from the years of building that they have done.
Hey Dave please read back in my original post.A poser is a man that doesnt even turn a wrench, and trys to buy his rodding respect. You have definatly earned yours,and im not sure why you got so upset,but i do apolagize.

Next time I need to vent ill just go in the garage and throw some wrenchs at the wall.
sure didnt mean to stomp on any true rodders toes

The trailer queens i was ranting about are the ones that are owned by RUPs that I have run into that are pushed on and off the trailers and not even started.
I should have taken a deep breath before i vented and made my statements more clear.