Thread: How to extend input shaft on Vega steering box?

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I am into a real nasty tight situation with steering universal joint clearance on my roadster pickup build. The intermediate shaft which runs between the universal joint on my Vega box and the universal joint on the end of my steering column will clear the exhaust pipe and manifold if it runs straight back from the box, however when it is swung up to mate up with the end of the steering column shaft it interferes with the exhaust pipe. I believe that if I am able to make or buy an extension peice for the Vega input shaft that will extend it about 4 or 5" before the universal joint, then my intermediate shaft can swing up to mate with the column universal and be clear of all obstructions. I don't want to buy headers. I see that Borgeson sells an "anti-vibration" coupler that is 1 3/4" diameter x 3 1/2" long with a female spline on one end and a male spline on the other, and that they also sell splined couplers and adapters. I am running a small block chev engine and rams horn exhaust manifolds in a model A chassis and body.----Has anyone out there encountered this problem, and used some method of extending the vega input shaft to resolve it?

This is a picture of the problem area.

Here's a photo that illustrates a couple of things.

The steering shaft and column are longer than what's being used in your car.
The bottom of the column/shaft is closer to the frame rail than yours - and in fact is now closer to the frame rail than the initial setup shown in the pic.
The intermediate shaft sits lower and it's a straight shot to the Vega box.

Looking from here, I'd say if you moved the bottom of the column over to the left far as you could, more than likely you'd clear the exhaust pipe.

Don't be concerned about the steering wheel ending up a touch 'off-square' in the car.
My 32 is that way and it's not a problem.
The off-square bit is also something done in Detroit on many cars.
My 50 Plymouth coupe had an off-square steering wheel/column that was more severely angled than my 32 and I never noticed it until steering wheel angles entered a conversation one bright and sunny day and we realized the Plymouth wheel was really off square. (A totally stock car by the way.)

Fwiw - the aluminum column shown is home-made incorporating sealed ball bearings and utilizes a non-tilt GM steering shaft that is 37" long stock.

If Ididit used a stock GM steering shaft, you may be able to get a longer tilt shaft - lower piece at least - and adapt it to your upper tilt shaft.

The engine in the pic is a 455 Buick set on center in the chassis and it has more exhaust port clearance than it appears to have in the pic.
My last car with this same steering column setup had a 455 Buick set 1" to the right to gain header clearance, but it didn't really need it so that's why this car has the engine on center.

If you haven't ordered your intermediate shaft yet, I suggest using a Double D shaft and buying the 36" length.
You get enough to make 2-3 intermediate shafts depending on what you're doing.
(The one I bought was cut up and resides in three different cars.)

The steering in my roadster is off center too. Other than the fact that I don't have much room for my left foot it is not noticable at all.

Last year I responded to a post that someone else had about exactly the same situation, and he said that Borgeson had recomended that he purchase one of their in-line anti-vibration couplers and attach it to the Vega box to effectively move his lower universal about 3 1/2" closer to the firewall. Now I can't remeber where I seen the post. I was hoping that whoever had posted it would come foreward with some more information about it, and if it fixed his problem.

C9X---I just came in from the garage, and after dummying up an intermediate shaft with a peice of wooden dowel have made these observations----My column, if extended will just clear the inside of the framerail by enough to get a universal joint on it, and thats all, so there is nothing to be gained by moving it any farther towards the framerail. If I come straight off the Vega box with a universal joint and my intermediate shaft, everything is clear.----It appears that ultimately my perfect solution is to extend my steering column shaft by about 5 or 6". This would make my setup like yours. I have purchased this Ididit column, and they will not take it back. It is 32" long, the longest column they have anyways. I have my universal joints as well. I will have to contact Borgeson tomorrow and see if they can sell me a collar that attaches to the end of my Ididit column shaft, with a peice of G.M. double D shafting extending about 5" beyond the column. This should get me out of trouble.

This mock-up shows what I have to contend with. In this picture I have all the clearances I will require---the intermediate shaft and the steering box input shaft extension are wrapped with masking tape to show up in the picture. Everything clears the exhaust pipe adequately---But (and its a big "but")---The end of the universal joint closest to the steering box is shown 6" farther away from the steering box than it would normally set, without the extension shaft in place. The upper u-joint is in place on the end of the steering column. I tried to see if things would work by
extending the steering column shaft instead, but it doesn't work because if I do that the lower u-joint remains straight while the upper u-joint takes all the bend, exceeding the 35 degree maximum.---the way I have it shown now, both u-joints have an equal amount of bend (less than 35 degrees).---The big question here is going to be if I can buy something from Borgeson to extend that steering box input shaft as I have shown it.---there anti-vibration coupler won't work, because its too short (only
3 1/2" long)

That's about the same place my upper U-joint ended up at.
Approx 1/4" + between frame rail and fat part of the U-joint.

Couple of things you coud do is to substitute a longer junkyard GM lower shaft - if you could adapt it to your tilt mechanism.
Fwiw - the GM steering shafts are 3/4" OD and 36 splines on the lower end.
Steering wheel splines are the same for many years of GM production.

Another way out is to replace the Vega box with one from the next size up cars.
Harwood used to set their 32 frames up for these El Camino and other similar models slightly larger steering boxes that bolt right onto the Vega steering box plates.
Nice part about the next size up box - and they're barely larger - is the input shaft sticks out to the rear quite a ways further than does the stock Vega.
Looking from here, the extended input shaft boxes have close to the same length on the input shaft you've mocked up.

Not sure what you'd find, but an Internet search for Saginaw steering boxes may net you the number to look for.

I see you've dropped in on the RRT.
The people there know what the box number is if you care to post a question.

Enjenjo on the RRT is a national treasure as far as being a fount of knowledge goes.
You couldn't go far wrong in asking him....

Originally posted by C9x
Another way out is to replace the Vega box with one from the next size up cars.

This what you mean C9? http://www.borgeson.com/manual-sagin...s-brackets.htm

Well guys, I've been kicking and squealing all day trying to find a way to avoid using a third u-joint, but I just don't see a way. It's not the work involved, its the price of the damned things. Here in Canada a u-joint is $76, a rod-end style support bearing is $35, and a 36" length of 3/4" shafting, splined both ends is $45 (I am going to get a plain bore third u-joint and get 2 shafts out of 1 peice) That plus 15% taxes plus $20 shipping rounds out at $187 to add that third u-joint. Its too late in the game now for me to start looking at different steering boxes and changing steering columns. Both of the previous "total build" rods that I constructed used only 2 u-joints, but had expensive headers. This one has $25 flea market manifolds, but will need the extra u-joint.---some days ya win, some days ya lose.

Brian, I've looked at your pictures and I think you've got all the bends in that shaft you want. If you're willing to do the work, you can pull the input shaft and have it lengthened to fit right. The cost is probably less, but the work is more. The good news is, your rod will steer much better. If you decide to go this route, feel free to e-mail me for some details.

Try your local machine shop. they can seperate the shaft, weld in a new length, true the shaft and clean it up. I ve seen this done in the 50 - 150 price range depending on the machine shop!

Sorry guys,
the duplicate response is my fault. TFES Performance is my partner on the East Coast. We discussed it before we sent it. I thought he was having trouble getting in so I sent mine from Phx. For those who are interested, TFES is The Front End Shop. Like many, we had humble beginnings before we got into wholesale and retail sales.

Originally posted by Bob Parmenter
This what you mean C9? http://www.borgeson.com/manual-sagin...s-brackets.htm

That's the one Mr. Bob.
Thanks.

I don't know how low Brian's engine sits, but I wonder if altering the exhaust pipe is a viable deal?

Not criticizing Brian here, but what works for me is to install the steering and then build the headers/exhaust pipe around them.

Exhaust U-bends are a lot cheaper than another U-joint.
Especially so with the exchange rate he's dealing with.

C9x---I can't fault your reasoning, but it kind of gets into a "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" scenario. That peice of exhaust pipe is already massaged to the max, and a custom u-bend wouldn't help any. I spoke to some steering "experts" this morning, and they recomend against using the "extended steering box shaft method" unless I remove the steering box, disassemble it, take it to a machine shop, have a new peice welded to the input shaft, have it magnafluxed,, and have it resplined. ----methinks that would cost a zillion dollars. To buy an adapter/coupler and 2 intermediate shafts costs only $35 less than buying one new universal joint, a 36" length of shafting splined both ends, and a support bearing .