Thread: Engine Swap... and more

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Hey guyz whats up?? I just started building my first hot rod. It's been a fun process so far but i'm having some trouble right now. I've gotten every thing torn down and I've got a bare chassis sitting infront of me. I'm swapping in a chevy 350 4 bolt main and i plan on running about 400 horses out of it.
What strengthening do i need to do on the frame and what type of rear suspention would you suggest?? I don't plan on racing it or professionally showing it i just want something easy and comfortable.
Also what should I do about a front end?? It's my dad's car and he suggests going and finding a front end at a junk yard and fabbing it up to fit. Is this a good idea?? or should i get a front end kit??
Like I said this is my first build so i will frequently be posting to get ideas and help. I thank you for your help in this matter.

Jeremy

I guess I'm not real familiar with a 40 chebbie, if it is a "C" channel frame, you should box it to take the extra power the new motor will have. The front suspension kits would be a lot easier for a first timer to install, and would make a better looking setup when you're done. JMO

For the rear suspension, I would reccomend coilovers and a triangulated 4 bar kit. They are very stable and if the correct springs are selected will ride quite nice.

Thanks for the tips. The forty chevy already has a boxed fram.
Do you know where i could find i cheap front end kit?? once again thanx.

Even though there's some work involved with the core support and such to bolt the fenders, grille, etc. back on in the correct position, how about using something like a Chevy S10 front frame clip swap. It would give you modern steering and brakes and there are kits to swap in a small block, headers, etc. and the track should be pretty close to the same as the '40. Also, I'm sure someone makes a crossmember that will weld or bolt in to mount a Mustang II system. In the rear, I might be thinkin' a 9-inch out of a Ford Bronco mounted on a set of leafs.

http://www.teufert.net/other/rear%20...dimensions.htm
http://www.eatonsprings.com/

Don't get in over your head the first time out. Rebuild the stock front end, maybe a disc brake conversion, and a '55-57 rear. Get it running and drive it for a while, then you'll know what else to do. But have fun first!

I've thought about just rebuilding the front end but the thing about this old car is it uses hydrolic dampers instead of shocks. I had it running stock and i must say the ride was pretty stiff. thanks for the advice though.
techinspector I'll see what i can find out there. also fro my rear end i was thinking about going for the Dana 60 in the rear of the donor car i'm using. I'm taking parts off of a 1984 gmc jimmy. I took the engine, transmission, and steiring box out and plan on using as much as i can from that.
I see a lot of r&p steiring in the hot rod pages i look at. Is it easier to use r&p or to try to fab something up??

"I see a lot of r&p steiring in the hot rod pages i look at. Is it easier to use r&p or to try to fab something up??"

I'd advise that you either rebuild what you have or swap in a frame clip or use one of the MII crossmember conversions that are available. Also, here's a post from one of the CHR contributors that offers up another idea of a crossmember conversion using your stock frame rails.......

" If you don't want to cut the front off the frame you could try takeing off the front suspension and putting in a Fiero front end. It has rack and pinion steering disc brakes and five bolt wheels. The front crossmember is easy to remove from the Fiero and wide enough to fit most frames with just a few brackets. I lowered a 40 Ford 6" with this setup."

More info on clips....
http://www.chevytrucks.org/tech/ifs&rearend.htm

Here are several early cars with a description of the suspension systems used. Although there isn't necessarily any fabrication information, you can see what "the other guys" are using......
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Studio/Coupes/

http://www.hotrodders.com/t11650.html

http://www.hotrodders.com/t18838.html

http://www.hotrodders.com/t30591.html

http://www.scottshotrods.com/IFSsystem.asp

http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/

If you do use your stock stuff and rebuild it, check the price of aftermarket discs first. You may find that you can do a whole front end from a donor car for less than buying just disc brakes for your otherwise stock '40.

If you decide to swap a clip and don't know how to proceed, e-mail me and I'll outline the whole thing for you. There is a lot of work to it, but if you pay attention and are proficient at welding or have someone who is and can help you, it is just a matter of following the steps.

ok let me bounce this idea off of you cause i took the advice from earlier and i'm thinking about runnign with it. I contacted heidt's to price their MII front crossmember alone ($400). My idea is to purchase this crossmember and go to a junk yard for rotors and caplers for front disk brakes as well as upper and lower a arms for an IFS front end. I'm thinking about going with their rear left spring kit as well ($465). do you think this would be a wise desision??

At first look, this seems to make sense. What I would do first is scout the boneyards to determine availability and price of the components. Then I'd price all the components to rebuild the boneyard pieces (control arm bushings, strut rod bushings, R&P rebuild kit, caliper rebuild kits, possibly new rotors if the ones from the boneyard are already cut beyond limits. While you're prospecting the boneyards, also price the brake pedal assembly, master cylinder and booster along with all valves in the system and price a rebuild kit for the master or the price of a new master.

Talk all this over with your dad and make sure you have his blessing on it before you begin. It makes a job like this go much easier if you have an old guy (experienced) involved who is interested in it from the git-go.

After I had all this info, I'd call Heidts and ask if I could buy a copy of the illustrated installation instructions. Tell them you're a first-timer and you want to make sure there aren't any surprises in store for you once you get started with this project. Tell them you want to make sure and have all the tools and supplies on hand that are necessary to do the job properly before you start.

I'll add this to get you started thinking about what you'll need....

No matter where you plan to do this, the floor will not be level enough. You MUST start with a level floor and enough room to move all around the car to do your work. I would consider an area 10 ft. x 20 ft. to be the minimum work area. If you'll be using a part of a garage, here's an inexpensive (well, relatively inexpensive in the whole scope of the project) way to begin with a level floor. Lay out an area 8 ft. x 16 ft. in the middle of the work area. Using a 48" level and a nice flat piece of 2 x 4 x 8 ft. piece of lumber standing on edge, find the high point in this area. My garage floor was off by 2 1/4" from front to rear in this size area, sloping toward the street to facilitate water runoff in the garage area.

What you're going to do is shim up the floor to accept 4 sheets of 3/4" or 1", 4 ft. x 8 ft.sheets of composition board to use as a flat, level working surface. For shims, you'll be using pieces of scrap lumber maybe 4"x4" or 3"x3" and stacking them in stacks no more than 6" apart all over your 8 ft x 16 ft. area, using construction glue or cement to glue them to the floor and to each other so they won't move. You'll use zero shims at the high spot and higher and higher shim stacks as you move to the low point. Sheets of old wall paneling will work well for the thinner shims and I've even used one or more pieces of thick manila folders stuck together to get where I need to be. Construct each stack to the proper height using your 48" level as you build each new stack. When you have your stacks completed, glue the composition boards to the stacks and you'll have a fine, level and smooth floor to measure and build from. If you need to hold components in place, make a fixture from scrap metal and wood-screw it to the composition wood floor.

Once you have the car in place on your new floor, level the frame of the car front to rear and side to side with 4 minimum capacity 3-ton high-quality jackstands. Use some of the same material you used to level the garage floor to level the car. Now, choose 2 points on the rear of the frame on each side that are the same distance from the front of the car. These might be holes that are punched into the frame or they might be the corners of a rear crossmember, but they need to be the same point on the car in both places left and right. Drop a plumb-bob down to the floor from each point and make a mark with a carpenter's pencil. Using the flat edge of your piece of lumber you used to level the floor, draw a line all the way across the board from side to side between these 2 points. Drive a nail into the board at each point, leaving about a half-inch of the nail sticking out of the board. These will be your reference points for everything else you do to the car, so be very careful that you do this right.

Now go to the front and choose another 2 points on the front of the frame. Again using your plumb-bob, make marks on the board and run a line across between them. Drive a nail in at each point, leaving 1/2" sticking up.

This is the point at which you find out if you have a player or you don't. Measure carefully front to rear on the left side and front to rear on the right side. Then measure diagonally both ways between the nails. If any measurement is off by more than 1/8", the frame is tweaked and all bets are off until the frame is straightened.

I'm predictin' we'll never hear from Jeremy again.

Well, even if he doesn't come back Tech that is a wealth of information for others considering the same mods to their ride. Thanks for taking the time to post it. Lots of very good, practical information in your post.

the only reason you wouldn't see me again is the fact that it would take me so stinkin long to get this stuff done before i came back with more questions.
I'll be posting a lot because building this hot rod is way different than any other thing i've ever done.
Also I will usually be posting in the mornings because thats when i do all my research and have a plethera of time to chat and post.

As for level ground, pretty much have it done already, the place i have to work on this car is a barn with rock flooring. since rock isn't the greatest thing for rolling chery pickers around on i put particle board downon the ground to help that. I would like to get a cement floor in there and have a nice place to work but sadly i do not.

Thanks for all the help you've been with all the great advice.
"It makes a job like this go much easier if you have an old guy (experienced) involved who is interested in it from the git-go."
The old guyz i have are all of you. My dad like driving classic cars and looking at them but he doesn't have a clue how to work on them. I am the first and only gear head in my family. All i've learned so far has been from trial and error so all the guys here that help out are so much help

Well alrighty then Jeremy, let us proceed.

By the way, use this same thread for the whole project. That way, everybody can follow along and give good advice.