Thread: Vega steering conversion

Tweet

Here's a pic of a mocked-up header setup that will be used on the 31.

This alleviates a lot of problems with inside the frame headers that conflict with other things and can be a tight fit.
It also helps in the under-frame muffler dept.

(I'm limited in the size of the muffler I can use in my 32 and want this car to be quieter so larger mufflers will be used on the 31.)

C9X, I'm building a 30 with SBC and I really like your setup. Did you purchase the motor mounts or make them? There are several different types of mm to choose from and yours looks like the one that will best suit this application. If you bought them, where did you get them? Thanks for the pictures from everyone, they really do speak a 1000 words. I was thinking about a different type of mount but your experience and advise has changed that decision.

The motor mounts on both my roadsters are cut from 3/16" CR flat plate.
Three pieces, one top plate and two outside gussets.

They are, to a certain extent similar to 48 Ford style biscuit mounts and in fact I ran Ford rubber cushions for a while, but some of the modern re-pro rubber biscuits are overly soft.
I did find a set of about the same durometer (hardness) as the stock Ford ones . . . if I remember right they were from Chassis Research in Iowa.
Good place to deal with.

Here's a pic of the right side mount in my 32.
42,000 miles to date with about the last 15,000 with the UHMW biscuits shown.
(More pics to follow.)

This pic shows the underside of the right side mount as well as the home-made remote oil filter adapter and the frame adapters for the #10 oil line that goes inside the frame.
The filters are located on the right frame rail under the passenger area.

Note the stock Ford style underside cushion.
This is an older photo and the black rubber cushion was replaced with UHMW when the upper UHMW biscuit was installed.

This pic shows the 31's left side motor mount.

The white plastic is UHMW - stands for Ultra High Molecular Weight.
It's a type of industrial sliding bearing, not as slippery as Teflon, but 70% stronger from what I understand.
Quite a bit cheaper than Teflon as well.

It's available many places, comes in sheets of different thicknesses - 3/8, 1/2, 3/4 & 1" for example and I believe other sizes are readily available.

It's easy to work, pilot drill it 1/4".
Cut out the size desired with a hole saw.
Drill the mounting hole to size.

It machines fairly well if you use a very sharp HSS cutting bit.

The aluminum load spreaders on top and bottom are not really required.
I thought they were and made the bottom one when I put the 31 together.
Seven months later, I made the top plate and when I lifted the engine to install it, the weight of the [complete] engine and trans had not dented it.

It damps vibrations quite well and the 32 seems to run quiter with the UHMW motor mounts than it did with the rubber mounts.

Engine mount engine side plate is 3/16" CR - one plate of the stuff went a long way as is the welded together three piece frame side mount.

There is a UHMW under cushion and it's all held together with 1/2" bolts and Nylock nuts.

C9 & Brian,

I just opened your replies, I will have to measure the 5" width from the frame rail, do not think there should be a problem.

Can the drag link run on an slight angle to the passenger steering arm? I don't see why it couldn't if it should need to, I really don't think it will though.

I have over the frame headers, so I believe the only problem I might encounter will be the cross brace/motor mount combination.

The drag link and steering rod clearances should be well below the balancer and through the 4 bar.

I would post pictures but I'm not sure how to. Do I have to post them to a website first? or can I link them to through this site.

Thank you a ton for all your help and pictures you have posted !!

Joe

Originally posted by Joe Cool 34
C9 & Brian,

I just opened your replies, I will have to measure the 5" width from the frame rail, do not think there should be a problem.

Can the drag link run on an slight angle to the passenger steering arm? I don't see why it couldn't if it should need to, I really don't think it will though.

I have over the frame headers, so I believe the only problem I might encounter will be the cross brace/motor mount combination.

The drag link and steering rod clearances should be well below the balancer and through the 4 bar.

I would post pictures but I'm not sure how to. Do I have to post them to a website first? or can I link them to through this site.

Thank you a ton for all your help and pictures you have posted !!

Joe

The drag link can run - and usually does - at an angle, usually uphill from steering arm to pitman when viewed from the front.
Try to match the angle of the panhard bar if you run one - and you should run a panhard if you have a transverse front spring.

If necessary the drag link can run at a moderate angle from the tie rod when viewed from the top
Most times the steering box will sit to the rear and bring the pitman end of the draglink to the rear.

Far as posting pics goes, downsize them to about 650 pixels across and convert them to JPG.
Save em to a file.
Go to the bottom of the reply form and select browse.
Select your photo from your file and once it shows up in the browse window you can hit submit reply

C9

This is a picture looking from the front to the back.

I hope the mounting bracket will allow the input shaft to be just below this cross brace/motor mount.

The second picture is looking from the firewall towards the front.


What are your thoughts?

Thanks again,
Joe

C9,

This is a picture from the firewall looking towards the front.

If you're going with the Vega box you might want to look at the sixth item down on this page; http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com...3-1934ford.htm

Looks like you have plenty of room width wise so that's not the issue, but this mount also allows you to drop the box down some (check for ground clearance of course) when compared to the normal surface mount the guys have referenced above, plus it has the extra gussetting for needed strength. Looking at the probable width of your frame, you won't have the same issues of shaft routing the Model A chassis has. If you mock everything up before welding you'll be able to proof your clearance needs.

Like Bob says, you're gonna have to mock it up to be sure.
Looking from here it looks like the Vega box can hang down a little lower and it will be below your crossover motor mount tube.

Keep in mind as well that you can heat and bend the pitman up to get additional clearance. (Do that with the pitman removed from the box . . . seems obvious, but I've heard newbies talk of heating the pitman while still on the box.)

If you use an aftermarket flat pitman you can insert the draglinks tie rod end from top or bottom due to the flat pitmans are tapered top and bottom.
I've done the tie end install both ways so no big deal there.

If it came to it, you can gain some room by cutting the crossover tube motor mount and running it up a little higher on the frame.
That would require shortening the flat tab that bolts to the motor mount proper, but it looks very do-able from here.

Regardless, the Vega box mounting plate does allow the box to hang down a ways and there's usually a gusset to brace the mounting plate against the bottom of the frame.
You're gonna want the mounting plate hanging below the frame far enough to allow installation of the lower two Vega box mounting bolts.

The photos you posted are a big help in visualizing what you're trying to do.
I'm guessing the crossover tube mount is 2" OD and you could gain that much easily if you had to.

Got a dead-on side view of the car?
That could give us an idea of how low the steering box could go.

Too low is not so good in most cases.
I try to tuck the box and pitman arm up to where it's fairly well protected.

Every once in a while I see a car - usually well built - with a Vega box angled down in front to alleviate the U-joint angle.
(30 degrees is the max recommended for one U-joint)
The angled down part not so bad, but when they install the aftermarket flat pitman and the front of it is the lowest thing on the car . . . it strikes me as a not-so-good way to do it.

Here's a front view of a car my friend is doing for a guy.
Look close and you can see an "S" shaped pitman arm.
Note too that the box is hung fairly low.

It has a steering box similar to a Vega . . . it is a Saginaw, but I'm not sure which one.
A little more research is needed before I can be sure of the number - there were no marks etc. on the box.
It may have come out of a Camaro or similar size car.

Since the Vega's are so difficult to find nowadays - unless you buy an aftermarket one - we've started looking at other steering boxes.

There are several Saginaw boxes out there that look like they would work well in the hot rod environment - they're only a little bit larger than the Vega.
But . . . you have to be careful.

We found one ideal looking candidate and after a little inspection, we realized the pitman shaft rotated opposite to a Vega pitman.
Turn left to go right, not so good.
Probably has to do with the front steer cars.

Nice part about the box in the pic, a simple flat plate mount did the trick.
No stand-off bushings were required due to the boxes mounting tabs stuck out beyond the rounded body of the box.

Here's another view of the same steering box.
Note the motor mount location.
Note too, the tie rod and drag link are parallel.

If you used this box you shouldn't have any trouble using the flat aftermarket steering arm.
Most of the GM passenger car pitman arms have the same size broached hole in the big end.

Note too that the box is larger than the Vega and sits further toward the inside.
I don't have any measurements here, but the box looks like it would work in a number of cars.

These boxes run $40. - $50. in my area. (N/W Arizona.)

Here's a pic of a #122 Saginaw steering box.

I believe these were used in 70's era El Camino's and the similar sized passenger car as well as the slightly smaller cars like the V8 Monza although you'll find the Vega box in most of the Monza sized cars.

This box would be an excellent one for your use due to the longer input shaft that would help in the motor mount clearance dept.

Physically, it's not much larger than the Vega and in fact a Texas based fiberglass body company was using these in the frames they supplied when finding a Vega box got tough.

I bought the Vega box in my 32 in 1985 and out of 25 Vega's at the junkyard, only two of them had steering boxes.
They were more than popular then and it's worse now.

And here's a pic of a Vega Saginaw #140 for comparison.

Fwiw - the #122 box shown above bolts right onto the Vega aftermarket adapter plate.