Thread: V6 90 degree vs 60 degree engines question

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I have been scanning everything I can on the 231 engine and even took the advise of some on this board in purchasing a lot of old 70-80 Hot Rod magazines to see about V6 swaps when they did them back in the last gas crisis. Yes, indeed, I found some great articles and I am in the planning process of getting things going. Personally, I like the 231 and a 350 tranny combo so far. However, I also found articles on the other to read about as well.

My questions are, which engine is most preferred for a V6? Are they both about the same in stock mode? What about availability of parts or even a junkyard engine that may be of use? Is there any big difference between the two engines? I don't mean any parts swap, but mean ease of swap into a Model A, power and performance or any special modifications necessary to make it all work.

I was reading another thread about Mavrick and Granada rear ends working well for the 231. I am probably looking for a '79-'84 engine, but Novak says the electronic stuff can easily be bypassed on a later engine to make it work. However, the cars I have seen with the Buick V6 so far have pretty well been '79 models. Any special difference in the Maverick and Granada rear ends. This will be a tudor street machine that is solely for daily driving and good economy; not for neck-breaking take offs or speed.

Who all runs a 231 in their Model A at this site?

Thanks for any input on the two engines or the questions above,
Huey

Just happen to have a couple Maverick, rear ends, and a set of 3.00 gears on a posi unit. Let me know if you need one.

I'm not positive where the break point is, but early engines are odd fire, and newer engines are even fire. The even fire are much smoother. The point of the switch is the late '70's or early '80's.

Also, because you don't specify, I'm assuming you are talking strickly Buick, correct? Chevrolet had a 229 V-6 (also 3.8L), and I'd definitely stay with the Buick 231. Of course, if you can find one, the larger LaSabre and Electra models used a similar 4.1L (252) that can use many of the same parts as the 3.8L.

Another question would be the amount of horsepower you are looking for from your combination, and assuming your reasoning, fuel mileage? There a quite a few places that make performance parts for these engines. Let your fingers walk thru the internet search function and you'll find the parts you seek.

Just something to keep in mind. Newer cars come in various combinations. Some blocks are specifically set up for FWD. But, the internals from newer blocks should interchange. Crankshafts from intercooled turbocharged and supercharged engines I believe are forged.

If you look at Chevy stuff, stick with the 4.3L, as this is basically a cut down 350. Pistons, oil pumps, valve train items, etc. with interchange with SBC stuff. The only bad part about these engines are the lack of aftermarket support for items like intakes and heads.

Good luck.

The 60 degree Chevy motors have a bad habit of blowing head gaskets. They will not bolt up to a 350. However, the small bell housing 700R-4 is abundantly available and cores are cheap.

Edelbrock makes an intake.

FWD 60 degree V6 motors an be adapted to rear wheel drive using a modified small bell housing 700R-4. A lot of work, in my opinion, for very little return.

The 4.3 chevys are good motors. They were used in trucks and vans. Every one I have taken apart was well used. You want the late 80s motor but you do not want the 90s motor with the ballance shaft. Edelbrock makes an intake. You can also get a four barrel cast iron intake off an Astro Van. Hazy on the exact year (84., 85 or possibly 86). Dave Ray can build you a distributor.
http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com

I am not an expert on the Buick V6 engines. They were derived from the 300/340 V8 which was in turn derived from the Olds/Buick all aluminum V8.

If I were looking for a small motor to run in a Model A I would consider a Buick, Olds or Rover blocked 215. They are a bit longer than the V6s. But they offer economy with good looks and performance. In fact, I am building one now. It is adapted to a small bell housing 700R-4 transmission. With a cam, four barrel carb and intake, and headers I am expecting 190-200 hp. That will move a Model A down the pike just fine. D& D Fabrications offers a lot of stuff for these motors. http://www.aluminumv8.com.

Just a thought.

2.8L and 3.4L 60* V-6's were available in RWD. They were installed in Chevy S-10 trucks and Blazers, the GMC versions, as well as low and mid-range F-Bodies (Camaro and Firebird). GM has all kinds of racing parts for these including an aluminum block.

GM has shrunk the parts catalog on the 3.8L but the aftermarket has all kinds of parts.

As for the old 215 (3.5L) V-8, you'd have to find one and because they recent ones were in Range Rovers, they're more expensive. Plus there is vurtually no aftermarket support for parts. Newer EFI'd engines such as the 4.8L and 5.3L are smaller displacement, can be made to work with a carb, and will as little as the old 215. The 5.3L is aluminum blocked and use the same parts as the rest of the GM Gen III family of engines.

Newer transmissions will increase your mileage, but they are electronically controlled. All of the about engines will also work with your choice of manual transmission.

The 5.3 has an iron block with aluminum heads but does work with most LS1 parts.

Originally posted by 76GMC1500
The 5.3 has an iron block with aluminum heads but does work with most LS1 parts.

5.3L used in the SSR and Trailblazer, Envoy, Bravada and Ranier use aluminum blocks.

Well the one in my dad's '04 Silverado didn't. Kind of odd that they wouldn't just use an LS1.

Dave,

Thanks for the offer, but I am building a very low budget (cheapola) car and shipping on parts from your place to mine would likely cost an arm and a leg, me thinks.

I am only in the project thinking/planning stage only at the moment, as the tudor is still in storage. I have decided on the 231 though and really appreciate the info provided on rear ends and such here. I will be scouting out the local wrecking yards soon to see what all I can scavange as to parts. Trying to think out various parts and even making a workable plan on just how to remove all I need to on my tudor before installing anything at all.

Anxious to get the car here to begin working on it, but it may be a bit before I can actually do that, as we are currently renting. My luck is so bad that it would be just like it for the owner of the home we lease to sell the home out from under us the day after I remove the engine and driveline from the Model A. Therefore, I have to really think out where I can best start before I get ahead of myself. Researching as much as possible at present and will ask many more questions before long.

The highboy approch or fenderless style to a tudor is a new concept for me and takes a bit of developing a taste for it. However, makes perfect sense that removal of the fenders, running boards and apron will cut costs for a truly low buck approach. I am trying to develop the aquired taste for that style street rod right now and have been trying to find as many pics of such as I can. I saw one in the archives. I am not sure if it is ownered by whomever Daver is, but if anyone has pics of a fenderless tudor, please share or direct me to any site where I may check them out. I am working with a picture program tool so that I can try to do some paint ideas, but need a few shots of fenderless Model A's to play about with.

Huey