Thread: Ethanol E85

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About 2 years I saw a segment on TV about Ethanol E85 getting limited use in the midwest.
Considering the current surge in fuel and also the fact that most people on this board are pretty knowlegable ; I would like to know if any further strides ar being taken into consideration toward E-85?

Just thought about it .
Any views are appreciated

go to this site and see if your car is listed as compatible with E85. Otherwise, you dont want to run it.

http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php

They sell it here but why make ADM rich?

Do a Google search and you will find a bunch of info on it. Basically it's 85% ethanol. There are a couple of stations in Tucson (75 miles away from me) that sell it.

Ethanol is basically grain alcohol and my personal opinion is that I would love to see it become readily available nation wide. Although I try to keep my political views off this forum I'll make this exception. I would much rather see our excess grain turned into fuel than shipped overseas to people who don't particularly care for us, let alone buying crude oil from countries who are actively trying to do us harm. (OK I feel better now )

Besides the logistics (increasing output of ethanol, distribution etc) there are a few minor problems associated with running ethanol at above the 10% level. First is there is not as much BTU value in a given quantity of ethanol as there is in the same quantity of gasoline. This in effect means that the fuel mixture must be richer to compensate (naturally meaning less fuel mileage) along with timing adjustments. The second problem is that even at 10% levels Ethanol can attack "rubber" fuel system components such as fuel lines and carburetor needles that are not specifically designed to run ethanol.

Many of the newer cars are E85 (flexible fuel) compatible and the computer makes the necessary adjustments for the ethanol based fuels.

Now I'm a carburetor guy, so everything I have is set up to run gasoline. If the fuel were to become available nation wide I would make the necessary changes to run this fuel (even if there were not a difference in price (I'd rather see my money spent in this country rather than overseas, I also suspect you would see the crude oil prices PLUMMET). I personally feel the transition to ethanol fuels would be no more traumatic than the switch to unleaded fuel in the 70's, and likely less so.

There are problems related to cost that make E-85 unpracticle. First, the infrastructure isn't there. In the metro Detroit area, there are only two or three stations that sell it. My Ranger will run on the stuff, but it's 10 miles to the 'local' place that sells it.

Second, the cost of the conversion is expensive. The complete fuel system in my truck is stainless. As alchohol absorbs moisture, as well as attacking other materials, stainless is the rule. But the replacement cost for the fuel pump in my Ranger in over $900!!!

Third is the cost of the fuel itself. The last time I checked, regular was around $1.75. At that time, the E-85 station closest to me wanted $2.85 a gallon for E-85. While I haven't checked recently, it wouldn't surprise me if they now want $3.85 to $4.25. And with the poorer mileage figuires, the cost isn't worth the results in my opinion.

Just to expand on Mike's comments, and put some math to it for you who are open to learning;

Numbers vary, but the prevalent ones say ethanol has about 60% the energy content when compared to gasoline. For mathmatically challenged that means that if you go 10 miles on a gallon of gasoline, you'll go only 6 miles on a gallon of ethanol. Given that E85 has 15% gasoline let's factor that in, so you'll get maybe 6.5-6.8 miles. For those myopically focused on the price per gallon you get a real kick in the wallet with E85, not even counting Swifties example.

The second kick in the wallet you get is by hidden cost. There's a measuring system for various fuels as to their yield of energy versus cost. The "ideal" is to use fuels that yield 5 to 10 times the amount of energy it takes to produce them. Ethanol, depending on the location, process, and crop yeild has a value of .7 to 1.5. Again for those who might not get the drift, at .7 that means compared to $1.00 of energy cost to produce it, it yields 70 cents worth of energy. Yes, it loses money producing it. That's why federal money, my taxes and yours if you pay them, pays a huge company like Archer Daniels Midland to produce less energy than they consume. Why? Because people in this country are too lazy to learn reality and only buy the BS about "screw the oil companies, help the poor farmer, become energy independent, and all the rest of the 'vote for me' BS". Note, ADM is not a family farm. (I don't support broad attacks on business in general, they are what employs and grows this nation, but I also don't support corporate wellfare for those few abusive companies). Of course the new, so called, Energy Bill we just got through congress increased this subsidy. And both parties are pandering to the uninformed voters on this one, so save your "I hate Republican or Democrats" rhetoric. (Pretty cranked up about this aren't I? )

There's a lot more, but people would rather panic and be buffaloed.

Bob is right, they're hardly a family farm. They are a BIG political contributor.....to both sides.

http://www.mindfully.org/Air/2003/Et...Scam6jun03.htm

These boys are getting fat from our tax money paying for their corn.

Maybe someone should develop a process of turning B.S. into fuel.. Washington DC would become the energy capitol!!!

mike in tucson

You guys may want to study up on the new cold process for E85, the cost of producing it is way down. I guess I would rather see money go to the "poor farmers" then to the mid east. At today's rip off prices, anything is better than gas.

South Dakota State University does a lot of research on E-85. At the time it's not perfect, but the potential is there. Give research a chance. The technology is changing and improving every day.

Bio Diesel is another new fuel under development. If the two combined could reduce our dependance on foreign oil by 20%, fuel would become more affordable for all of us.

But the question is, will you buy E-85 if it's 'only' $ .30 a gallon more than gasoline, or buy gasoline? I drive too much to spend more than I have to.

Ethanol is basically grain alcohol and my personal opinion is that I would love to see it become readily available nation wide. Although I try to keep my political views off this forum I'll make this exception. I would much rather see our excess grain turned into fuel than shipped overseas to people who don't particularly care for us, let alone buying crude oil from countries who are actively trying to do us harm. (OK I feel better now LOL)


right on Mike......

Hmmm. quite a disparity on E-85 prices....Around here it is .45 to .50 LESS than gasoline. No idea why there would be such a huge difference in the price. Anyone??? Transortation to get it there, maybe??? Unleaded that has 10% ethanol around here is anywhere from 3 to 6 cents cheaper than straight unleaded.

Originally posted by Dave Severson
Hmmm. quite a disparity on E-85 prices....Around here it is .45 to .50 LESS than gasoline. No idea why there would be such a huge difference in the price. Anyone??? Transortation to get it there, maybe??? Unleaded that has 10% ethanol around here is anywhere from 3 to 6 cents cheaper than straight unleaded.

That may be a issue more related to increased gasoline pricing than E-85 being discounted. For all I know right now, that local E-85 station might still be at $2.85 .

Don't know, Swifster. Maybe it is because we have an ethanol plant 10 miles from town??? Sounds like somebody is putting some $$$$ in there pocket, huh??

Oops, the article didn't copy. It was about the octane rating of E-85, from 95 to 110!!!

around here E-85 runs .30 to .40 a gallon cheaper than regular unleaded.

I'll check the pricing tomorrow if I can.