Thread: Good tech info?

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Hello all,

Im new here and to older hot rods but not cars. I have done a tone of google searchs and i just cant seem to find any solid tech info on lowered front i-beam suspension.(i.e. design, angles, stearing and proven modifcations ect.)

like i said im new to this older stuff and have amillion question that probly have asked even more times. So what im asking for is if there good links or even books( i can read them too )for tech info that "insiders" or guys that have been around awhile know about ?
Thanks in adavance!

ERic

Why i-beam? My truck has it and unless you want to stay original,why lower an i-beam,,or am I misunderstanding your question?

I bought books on chassis and suspension design on ebay,give a look. Hank

There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on this board.

Ask a specific question and I'm sure it will be answered.

Another good place for old style tech is the RRT and HAMB.

RRT: http://www.roddingroundtable.com/for...58ef376a531d46

HAMB: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5

The RRT (Rodding Round Table) has a lot of calm and collected characters capable of answering some rather esoteric questions.

The HAMB can be a touch rowdy, it's a traditional hot rod board and they like to keep it that way so late model questions and the like are discouraged.
Don't let em get you down, do an intro then post your question on the main board.
In fact, do a little lurking there and see how it works.

That tech is out there, but as C9x says, it's rather "esoteric", and very out dated. Classic Performance Parts sells a dropped axle that is newly manufactured, and there are "mono-leaf" springs available to lower a leaf sprung front or rear. Caster wedges are available, as well as other parts. The tech is very rudimentary, and quite straight forward; the angles and all are in any old Chilton's, or Motor's, or older and repro shop manuals.

However, unless you are just set on doing a front end job in the old fashioned way, I would ask: "WHY??"

I have a '59 Chevy pickup with the stock leaf front suspension, and have examined the ins and outs of lowering, converting to disc brakes, power steering, and retaining the solid axle; it would involve almost as much work, and cost as much as, or more, than stripping the old axle and suspension off, boxing the frame, and installing a new Mustang II or other newly manufactured independent front suspension, and would not handle as well, or ride anywhere near as well as the indpendent suspension. I have turned this over and over for several years, now, and have decided to come into the 21st century - and I am really a luddite - I like old stuff. But this is one place I'm going to opt for new and modern; it won't cost any more, and will be a definite improvement.

Questions?? Ask away. And as was said earlier, check out H.A.M.B., or Rodders Round Table, too. Most of us don't bite, and we only growl once in a while.

Actually that is a pretty good question. I read it as asking about a dropped axle. I wanted a dropped axle since age 15 but bought a 5" drop which I thought would be conservative but now I have a very low front end. If I did it again I would buy a 4" drop. However I still need to get an alignment, so what do I tell the shop as to caster and camber for a '29 Model A with a 5" dropped axle. I know the tires should toe in slightly but what are the specs?
To partly answer the question, it seems to be a good idea on an early car to use the cross steering mode using a dogbone on the right side with two holes so the extra shaft can fit in there and reduce the bump steer. The Speedway catalog shows both a left side steering arm with a Mustang box but recommends a right hand cross steer set up as on early Fords from 1935 on. I am using a Flaming River Vega box with the cross steer setup. That is also the basic setup used on most of the Brookville repro frames for early Fords. Also I guess it is worth mentioning that a tube axle will not flex and possibly crack using hairpin radius rods while I-beam type axles will twist a bit and can use hairpin radius rods; either tube or I-beam type axles can use the newer four-bar setup but if you want it to look like the '50s it should be hairpin. I have the four-bar set up with an I-beam so I figure that has a little bit of independent flex although certainly not true independent suspension as in a Mustang II set up. Maybe a Mustang II front end is good under fenders, but in my opinion it looks strange in a fenderless setup. Can anyone tell me the camber and caster settings for a 5" dropped cross steer setup?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Ford axle should have 7 degrees positive caster, 5/8 degree positive camber, toe 1/16 to 1/8 in. Hank

Welcome Eric. Glad to see another Floridian on the forum. Reading through your post and questions, it looks like you have no specific application in mind as of yet, but rather are just trying to learn a little about I beam front ends in general. Fine. That's how we all learned, asking and looking.

I am a total traditionalist when it comes to front ends in rods. I have never owned one with an independant front end, and probably never will. I just like the simplicity and looks of them, especially under a fenderless car. That's just me, so maybe I can give you some insight on where to get the info you are looking for.

First of all, this type of front end, as modified for hot rod use, really hasn't changed much from the '50's. Sure, there have been improvements made along the way, like springs with teflon buttons, better perch bushings, etc., but nothing that has changed the basic layout or function. There are ones that use a single cross spring (most common in early Fords and other rods), ones that use 2 parallel leaf springs (chevy, dodge, and some trucks most notably) and some that use other arrangements like quarter-eliptic spirngs, and coils. But the single cross spring is the one you see the most.

Now, to get some education on how and what to use , there are some very good books out there on this subject. Go to any good bookstore and hit the auto section and start looking at how to books on hot rod suspension. There will be chapters devoted to these. Hot Rod Magazine (Peterson Publishing, I think) used to have a series of books on various subjects, and there are lots of independant guys who have done similar books. There is all kinds of info out there like this.

You might also want to start hitting the cruises and car shows. There is going to be the annual Nationals (I forget the exact name of the event) in Tampa in October at the Tampa Fairgrounds. Go, take a camera, and ask lots of questions. I've never had a lot of fun at that show, as I find the car owners a little snooty and not the friendliest, so I only went two years and never went back, but maybe that has changed. Usually, most car guys will be more than happy to help you out with info.

And, as c9 said, just be specific with your questions here. We are happy to offer any opinions and info we can, but it helps if we are asked very specific questions, rather than broad-brush inquiries. (And yes, the HAMB tends to be a little tough on people who ask questions they deem inappropriate, sometimes, and the lanquage is not exactly G-rated, either)

Good luck,


Don

Emo, There you are, Halftanked-Hank made my day with numbers for alignment. Thank you very much Hank, that is very helpful. What books did you buy with this info?

I am glad to see recent posts by C9x. I wanted to thank him for his old posts on using a Caravan seat in an Model A roadster. I cut the legs off the bottom but left stubs and reinforced the bottom with a framework of angle iron and it fits right in there after I took off the side arms; the '29 seems to be a little narrower than the '30 C9 is building. I did not saw off the seatbelt mounts but made short angle iron mounts that attach to the big bolt on the seatbelt mounts and angle over to bolt directly through the frame. The pictures from C9x were really helpful! I plan to use the nice red velvet seat as is for a while with recovering sometime in the future.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Thanks guys!! I aperciate the the help!

The reason was asking about the Ibeam, is i really like the look and styling of the early hot rods. Especialy the late 20's/early 30's 2 door sedans. When I do get one, I want to build a very traditional looking car and the front susspnesion is the one thing i din't have much luck finding stuff on.


Thanks im sure ill be asking more question whne i get one.

eric