Thread: Stick welder questions

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First off I appologise for being stupid! With that said, maybe with your help and a little practice I can get less stupid.

I am practicing with the Lincoln 225ac that I just got to weld the frame on my pickup. I am overlapping the frame to engineer a kickup. I am cutting small pcs. of frame rail (scrap) and welding them the same way the frame needs to be welded as practice.

The v between the two pcs. of frame rail is pretty deep, I tried to slow down and get more material into the v to build it up and I melted clean through the rail. I am assuming from this that I am going to have to run a good weld, then clean up the slag, and go back over it to "fill" the gap up? I am using a 1/8" 6013 rod at 135 amps. After I melted through the rail I backed it off to 120, but I didn't think it worked quite as well.

When I tested it to failure with the BFH the weld itself broke after bending it over 90 degrees, and not the welds grip on the frame rails, can I assume from this I got good penetration?

Thanks,
CHAZ

120 amps is still hot for 6013, I generally work 85-90 amps with 1/8th inch rods of the 601x type. Instead of filling it all at once, do multiple passes. Allow time for the welds to cool between passes and clean thoroughly.

....don't be down on yourself as your not stupid, you just haven't learned how to weld yet.
....ok, that being said, first off start practicing welding in the flat position on one piece of metal. Just run practice beads, one after the other until they look good. Then go on to welding two pieces together. Butt joints, lap joints, etc. After you've got this down, then you go onto welding in the horizonal position, then verticle & then on to overhead welding.
When you prepare two pieces of metal with a 'V' you put what is called a 'land' at the bottom of the 'V' on both pieces. This gives you some 'parent metal' for back up. I'd have to see exactly what's going on to be more specific but if the frame is already cut & fitted for welding and you have a big gap you might try putting a small piece of metal behind {on the back side} of the 'V' for back up to prevent burn through. You can grind it off later if you want. Ideally with a 'V' prepared joint you want a little gap for good penitration. As you are welding the front side of the joint it is burning through to form a perfect bead on the back side {like the root pass on a pipe weld}. BUT this is getting WAY ahead of where you need to be when starting out learning how to weld. It'd be like learning how to fly in a 747 jet! Anyway, so start out by practicing the basics.
For your specific questions; The welding machine you have is a great stick welder. 6013 is good rod & 1/8" is a good size. Although you might try 3/32" rod as it's a little smaller than the 1/8" and hence is easier to control. Also you run it at a lower setting so it won't burn through as easy. The way you are practing with scrapes is a great idea, as long as you also have the basics down pat...
If the 'V' is deep you just make multipul passes, you don't go slower. So yes, make a pass, clean it up & then another pass. Also if you let it cool between passes it won't burn through as easy. Don't cool it with water though cuz it'll make it brittle.
You should probably get a welding book or go on line to look for diagrams to help you. Or there is a really good welding web site. I don't remember the name of it but a guy on this site has mentioned it before. His name is 'big truck driver' {I think}....
Practice & you'll get it down..... hope this helps ya, Bill

That much heat you must be burning right through the base metal,turn it down. On the inside flanges you can only hope to join them together at the edge,on the outside you can lay in quite a bit of weld,one good root pass,and then several passes to cover. You must leave time for things to cool between passes or you will end up with nothing but scrap when you are done. Hank

billsbird ,you nailed it, great advice, thats just the order they taught us in school, how thick is the frame?, i cant see it being thick enough to requier multiple passes, definetly too much heat

You can cool the weld with a blast of air if you have a compresser. You seem to be learning the art the right way, by trying and asking questions. You do have to turn down the amperage, or use bigger rods, though for frame work you should be OK with what you have. Remember to keep the rod tip moving back and forth, across the weld, to avoid concentrating the heat in one spot and burning through. This directs the heat at the parent metal, instead of the edges of the gap you're trying to fill. With the rod at a 45 degree angle, sometimes a circular motion is easier to maintain. Nothing big, just about two or three times the diameter of the rod.

I have been having trouble getting a continuous weld with that nice "roll of nickels" edge. I have been breaking apart my test pieces and have found that the weld isn't running continuous but rather has "breaks" in it. I guess I am just not sure how fast I should move the electrode. I backed off the heat and didn't melt through the last test I made, but I didn't get a good looking weld either. Should I be watching until I get a weld pool as wide as the finished weld should be and then moving and hesitating again, or once I get a weld pool at the beginning is it a continuous slow motion?
Thanks,
CHAZ

I'm probably the worst person in the world to give you advice on how to properly weld, but my welds do hold, but aren't very pretty. Let me give you my feelings, and then some of the guys who really know this stuff can correct you and me.

Don't butt the parts tight against each other. Leave a gap of maybe 1/8 inch so the molten metal can flow into the valley. After you strike the arc, lean the rod in a 45 degree angle and drag the rod in the direction of the lean, while zig zagging the rod slightly to one side of the puddle then to the other, like you are stitching them together. You have the right amps when you are getting a sound like eggs frying. Go at a slow speed and watch the puddle to see how it is joining the two pieces together. Weld with the pieces horizontal where possible, as it lays down better, especially for a beginner.

Also, wear long sleeves and heavy gloves, and long pants. I just did some cutting with the torch, was wearing nothing but shorts, so I have burns all over the tops of my feet from sparks going into my socks.

You will also get a very bad sunburn from the uv if you aren't covered up.

Now let's see how the experts teach us where this info is wrong, and how to do it better.

Don

Only, I will have to take another run at it and see how I do. It bothers me to be learning this now, because I have the frame all trussed up and ready to weld, but I am not doing it until I know I am not going to ruin it or end up doing it over. It takes a whole lot of BFH to get the parts to break free, so I think they are holding decent, I just don't like the way they look, inside or out.
CHAZ

....hey Hoof, ok, first off did you try running a bead on just one piece of steel, in the flat possition??? Please try this first. From reading your post I'm getting the impression that your going back and forth between each piece of steel as your welding??? Are you??? This is not right for the first pass {root pass}. Go in a straight line, if you burn through then either your heat is too high or your gap is too wide. But as I stated earlier you need to learn ONE thing at a time & the first thing is to try a single bead on one piece of steel in the flat possition! Ok, now strike your arc on the piece of steel like you were striking a match. When you strike it the rod will come up and away from the piece of steel so lower it back down until it's right above the steel. You will see a puddle so put your rod almost in it. Then {FIRST try this; slowly move the rod ahead. WATCH the puddle, it will move as you move the rod, don't get way ahead of the puddle, just stay in it. Now {SECOND try this way; now instead of keeping your rod in the puddle, move it ahead of the puddle & then back into the puddle. Right after you move the rod out of the puddle, WATCH the puddle, you want to move back into the puddle BEFORE it closes up. So just move slowly ahead, going into & out of the puddle. Remember you want to be back into the puddle before it closes up. If the puddle moves ahead of your rod then your going to slow. If your puddle closes before you get back in it then your going to slow..... Try these two methods & let me know how it goes..... Oh, the rod you have {6013} is made to go in a straight line as you are welding. 6012 is the rod they make for ossolating with {going back and forth into and out of your puddle as you move ahead} on an A/C machine. Were going to ignore this for now. I want to see which way {ossolating or not} 'feels' more confortable to you. So remember your going to just do a single bead in a straight line. I think may be what you've been trying to do is called a 'switch weld'. A switch weld is one of two ways to fill a large gap, BUT not for the first pass & CERTAINLY NOT what you do before you can do a single bead.....
Also for better control try holding the electrode part way up between the stinger & the end of the rod {this is with the hand that your NOT holding the stinger with}. So if your right handed then you are holding the stinger in your right hand & you are also holding the rod with your left hand. Your left hand is the one that you are controling the rod with. You have more control this way because it's a shorter distance between the burning end of the rod & your hand. Try this at first until you get the puddle control thing down pat. Oviously as the fire gets close to your hand you must move it up towards the stinger {oh the stinger is the devise that holds the rod. Not trying to insult your intellegence, but I'm not sure what terms you know/don't know.}.... Also what you can do is wear thinner type gloves for better control. Gives you a better 'feel' for what's going on. BUT keep in mind that thinner gloves can present a safety issue so be careful....
Oh & if you have no puddle because all the molten metal is just blowing all over the place then you are WAY to hot.
Also if your rod is super red hot, almost to the point of melting away when it's almost gone??? Then you are also too hot {machine to high}. Also for better control you can use the type of stinger that tightens around the rod end {it has a little hole that you stick the end of the rod in & then you turn the handle of the stinger to tighten the rod in} instead of the ones that just clamp on it.....
Get back to me and let me know how it's going. AND if your not trying what I'm sharing with you PLEASE also let me know this..... hope I'm helping, Bill

There you go Hoof, I knew a member who actually knows how to weld would come to the rescue. You and I are both learning something from billsbird.


Thanks guy,


Don

Thank you so much. I have been trying to weld two pcs. of frame rail, and I guess I got started off wrong by skipping the first step. I have plenty of flat pcs. to start with, I will do that next. Thanks for the explanation.
CHAZ

Just a thought, try to start with a 70 series rod like the common 7018, it goes down way easier than that 6013 your using, those things still scare me, in my opinion they burn quick and violently, the 7018 or i think its a 7022, burns really slow giving you a better chance to watch the puddle like bill explained, i used the 7022 once, with that rod its impossible to mess the weld up ,good for practice, then once you get comfortable, move back to that 6013, a trick an old retired pipefitter taught me is when your doing multiple bass welds like on 1/4 " pipe is to run the root pass in 6013, then grind most of that pass out, then come back with a 7018 and burn out the rest , then continue with your final passes, also they taught us on flat plate, to use the bare end of the rod to gap your pieces, then tack it with the 6013, it burns quick and deep giving a good tack weld to minimize warpage, then make a good run with a 7018 to fill the gaps, and one of the most common places for a weld to crack is at your starting points,when you finish a rod , then continue the weld with a new rod, wach the starting point, cause youre gonna get a cold overlap at that point, you want to start a little ahead of your last bead, then loop back to the crown of the last bead, then get a good burn there, then continue. hope this helps some

Chaz, don't worry if your bead doesn't look the prettiest,with that rod it's hard to do,it's meant for burning thruogh rust and other impurities in the metal. Do your practice on one piece,and when you are satisfied with that,try joining two. switching to 7018 after the first pass is what I would do also, and with that rod the slag pops right off to reveal a really nice looking weld. Practice,and practice some more. Hank

Do not use compressed air to cool the weld. Cool the weld as slowly as possible to reduce brittleness.