Thread: Shop Rate

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Originally Posted by lt1s10

where he screw you is after he got to the dist., the wires is not all that hard to get to. he charged you full labor on the wires and it should have been a add on to the dist. its been done before.

i have Aldata labor rates, but i cant get to them right this min. the shop is closed until mon. sorry

Thanks, Mike

I figured that doing it all at once should have cut the labor. I'll talk to the service manager tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Thanks, Mike

I figured that doing it all at once should have cut the labor. I'll talk to the service manager tomorrow.

i used to fight with my mechanics over that on every W.O. they would have a motor r and r, and while it was out they put a front seal in the trans. then they wanted me to charge 4 hrs for pulling the trans when it only took 30 more min. to knock the seal in. they got motor r and r plus .5 for the seal.

Yeah, what Mike said. Oldest scam in the flat rate world... Charging for the main job, then throwing in a few incidentals that are part of the main job anyhow... My book is at the shop, but the time on plug R&R seems an hour or so high.... I don't use the flat rate anymore, customers won't stand for it..... Heck, I'm old and crippled and can usually beat flat rate,,,,,,including all my coffee breaks!!!!!!

Are vettes that complicated? I haven't worked on one so i wouldnt know, but seems like a lot of money to keep a car on the road!

From Dave Severson:

Yeah, what Mike said. Oldest scam in the flat rate world... Charging for the main job, then throwing in a few incidentals that are part of the main job anyhow... My book is at the shop, but the time on plug R&R seems an hour or so high.... I don't use the flat rate anymore, customers won't stand for it..... Heck, I'm old and crippled and can usually beat flat rate,,,,,,including all my coffee breaks!!!!!!

So Dave is a more honest mechanic in a modern world....would the costs be similiar in an everyday car like a chevy or ford?

Originally Posted by Packhorse32

From Dave Severson:

So Dave is a more honest mechanic in a modern world....would the costs be similiar in an everyday car like a chevy or ford?

Nope, costs would be considerably lower (I Hope!!!) on something other then a Vette. The Vettes have never been that much more complicated to work on, just that because it's a Vette, they feel they can get away with charging at least 50% more!!!! It's not right, but it's always been that way....

Hardest tune-up i've ever done had to be on the 4.0 v6 in the Ford Aerostar. It pays 4 hours in the labor manual and you have to take all the spark plugs out with a modified socket and stubby wrench while tearing your arms up on the insullation and aluminum that Ford puts all around the motor. But it sounds like they planked you on labor times for the tune-up on the corvette.

I don't think what they charged is as outragous as everyone else thinks sadly...you may be able to get through it in 2 hours (which is fairly impressive on those cars) but I'm pretty sure a reasonable rate for a plug/wire change would be at least 4 hrs.

Mistake #1 was taking it to a dealer

.....Hi Henry, well I don't know how similar your '93 Vette is to my '94 Firebird BUT my car has been up on jack stands for two days while I've been changing the plugs/wires. Now I'm most certainly NOT the fastest, most experiened car guy around, & I've had to make newmerous trips back down to the auto parts store for more/different tools BUT I can tell you this; It is a pain in the a** to change 'em! I went to camaroz28.com & got a bunch of tips so this helped but still! You have to take the alternator out for sure. Some guys pull the starter, unbolt & slide the power steering pump forward,etc, etc, etc... There is SO much stuff in the way, it's unbelievable!Anyway, I read where the labor only to change mine was around $300..... As of now I have all the plugs done & 4 of 8 wires in..... I'll finish tomorrow..... I'm not going to admit to the things I cut off & just threw away! But it sounds like they were 'double dipping' you by charging full price for Opti change & full price wire change... Bill

thats the problem with 91 to 93 GM, LT1's, be it camero, trans. am or vet. they are not easy to work on. believe me i know. i've owned 4 dif. cars with LT1 in them and replace the dist. on 2 of them. napa dist was 390.00 i think. the dealer is the problem. they worked the same mechanic's that i did. at the time i got 38.00 hr. book time and the dealer got 70.00 a hr. now i guess its 50.00 for the independent and close to a 100.00 for the dealer. find a good independent shop to go to.

I believe the labor time should have been broken down and discounted for any repetative steps taken while you had your work done. When I was a Mr. Goodwrench back in the last century they sure did. Was the labor rate clearly posted for all to see? It seems a bit high,but I do see rates of $65 posted around here. I'd go directly to the dealer himself, and when you recieve no satisfaction file a complaint with the better business bureau, or state attourney generals office. Just a thought,Hank

Originally Posted by billlsbird

.....Hi Henry, well I don't know how similar your '93 Vette is to my '94 Firebird BUT my car has been up on jack stands for two days while I've been changing the plugs/wires. Now I'm most certainly NOT the fastest, most experiened car guy around, & I've had to make newmerous trips back down to the auto parts store for more/different tools BUT I can tell you this; It is a pain in the a** to change 'em! I went to camaroz28.com & got a bunch of tips so this helped but still! You have to take the alternator out for sure. Some guys pull the starter, unbolt & slide the power steering pump forward,etc, etc, etc... There is SO much stuff in the way, it's unbelievable!Anyway, I read where the labor only to change mine was around $300..... As of now I have all the plugs done & 4 of 8 wires in..... I'll finish tomorrow..... I'm not going to admit to the things I cut off & just threw away! But it sounds like they were 'double dipping' you by charging full price for Opti change & full price wire change... Bill

the ford is a lot easer than the LT1 vet. the dist. is behind the water pump. you also have to take the H.B. off to get to the dist.

I may be too late with this input, but what Mike and Dave are referring to was identified as "overlap" in the body trade. In other words, when procedures overlap one another for the labor action required there was a reduction of one of the flat rate times, usually the second one. A good computerized labor program (which I would expect a dealer to have) will automatically factor in the overlap discount if the right labor codes are entered when building the invoice/workorder. Of course there are ways to "cheat" the programming.

Going to the BBB is pretty much a waste of time for getting anything serious accomplished. The State Attorney General's office is a bigger/better club, especially if there is a specific department for automotive service fraud (they'd be already familiar with the flat rate concept which could be difficult to explain to the uninformed).

Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

I may be too late with this input, but what Mike and Dave are referring to was identified as "overlap" in the body trade. In other words, when procedures overlap one another for the labor action required there was a reduction of one of the flat rate times, usually the second one. A good computerized labor program (which I would expect a dealer to have) will automatically factor in the overlap discount if the right labor codes are entered when building the invoice/workorder. Of course there are ways to "cheat" the programming.

Going to the BBB is pretty much a waste of time for getting anything serious accomplished. The State Attorney General's office is a bigger/better club, especially if there is a specific department for automotive service fraud (they'd be already familiar with the flat rate concept which could be difficult to explain to the uninformed).

bob,you are right about the BBB. if you belong to it they will more than likely do nothing.