Thread: airplane fuel

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Dave, do you have E-85 pumps out there? I haven't found any around here. I did notice the other day that the Shell station out by the interstate has a race gas pump, 110 octane @ 3.11 gal. If i could find a supply of E-85 I'd build the "Z" to drink it.

Yup, got enough around to make it practical to run in a daily driver and more coming on line all the time.... Madison is only a town of about 4500 people, we have two stations that sell it. I'm not ready to take my E-85 driver from here to California, but I have no problem getting fuel within a couple hundred miles of home and the availability is growing. There's a few sites on the net that list the places that have E-85, I just print out a list every month or so and keep it with the car and truck. The toter is a diesel. Whenever I'm travelling farther then that I'm usually driving it. Haven't switched the Bonneville over to it yet, but that's going to happen soon!!!!!

I don't guess my personal use of ethanol instead of gas will solve any world problems, but if you aren't part of the solution, you must be part of the problem........ It's here, it works, I'll use it....

the reason i get the Av gas is bc at $3.00 its a good deal for me and my small budget

My wife is looking over my shoulder and laughing at me. I have said in other posts regarding what I do as a subcontractor for fuel companies. It really hurts me to see the disconcernment about listening to the post put out by good guys here and the arguments start up. I am an independent fuel consultant for Valero and Excel. What I do for a paycheck is exactly what you people run in your tank. And yes, I want more for the quality and am not allowed to go for it. Especially what is used for aircraft. Do you wanna fall out of the sky? Are you wanting more results in your rod? Denny posted some great info of the fuel variants. Read and research please. There is no magic in this system. We are stuck with what we have to run from the pump. 100LL is petroleum fuel that comes from the same farm tanks that are delivered to your station. It's what I research and provide to you for a living. I gaurantee you that you are not going to suffer a loss of insermountable damage if you run it. You desire to listen to with all the wives tales? HHmmm....Fine....DON'TRUN 100LL.It is distributed by the same company that makes millions per quarter fiscal year for that you pay for. I'm the dummy that keeps things on an even keel for everybody that suffers from personal aircraft to "Joe Blow" at the pump. Yes, this is a rant (again) and nobody seems to pay attention. Time to crawl under my rock again.

By the way, My wife is making me post the fact that she is a control manager for Valero and needed to have that stated......fuel control. By the way

i am greatful of all the great info thanks guys im am gonna do some research on the web later tomorrow when im not drinking haha

As often happens well meaning people share misinformation mixed with good/accurate info. I too have had a background in this stuff but quite frankly can't get fired up to do a lot of typing to correct errors nor inadvertently embarass anyone who's tried to help. One of the wonders of the internet is the availability of good, accurate, information. So I will refer you to this if you wish to learn more; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

Since Wikipedia is an open environ some folks are justifiably suspicious of what's there. However, whoever did this page demonstrates considerable knowledge and research, backed by numerous credible links.

Germane to your concerns I would just point out a couple of areas to pay particular attention to. About the middle of the page is a chart that shows the BTU content for various fuels, both bio and petroleum. You'll note that Motor gasoline is approximately the same BTU content as Avgas. That means they have essentially the same amount of energy per unit available. If you don't do anything to increase the thermal efficiency of your engine you get no greater power output benefit from one or the other. The potential benefit for additional power output comes from the higher octane rating of the avgas which will allow, for example, raising static compression ratio to increase thermal efficiency. Edit footnote; don't be confused by the octane numbers reported by the RON method, the number on the pump is from a different test method that utilizes RON along with MON so the same fuel will have a different rating.

Near the bottom of the page there's a "See Also" section, click the link to Aviation Fuel. That will take you to a page where more specific info about Avgas formulation is addressed. Avgas isn't "just" normal motor gasoline with additives or dyes, though it is made from many of the same distillation components as SOME motor gasolines. This is explained quite well in this reference.

Toward the bottom of this linked page on Aviation Fuel is an external link to Chevron for "Aviation Fuels". Lots of good info there, but the items I would suggest that might be of most value if you're particularly curious would be numbers 10 and 11.

People, Please read this post by Uncle Bob. It is straight and simple for the every day grocery getter. Higher comp engines need more attention for their requirements. I can rant 24 hours a day on wives tales. Please don't get me started. If there's anything in your world you don't trust, don't do it. If you wanna test anything, by all means jump in. Really, the water's fine. The sharks can't get you if you swim fast enough. Good post Bob, thanks.

yes bob thanks for the link i never really gave any thought to gas and how its made.....its such a vital part of hot rodding. i should have done some research before i posted here i figured it was fine to run in my car but i just thought i would ask and im glad i did bc i have learned alot from everyones replys

I agree with adding some top oil. Been in my Ls-6 boat motor for yrs with'no problem.
Ron

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

I don't guess my personal use of ethanol instead of gas will solve any world problems, but if you aren't part of the solution, you must be part of the problem........ It's here, it works, I'll use it....

I'm just happy to see the 110 at the pump. The "Z" will sorta' be on the ragged edge @ 94 octane. 110 will be good insurance and available right down the street. how cool is that?

Nitro warrior is correct. I throw in with him.

"Av" gas...heh! Back in the day, (1930ish-1960ish), There were 2 kinds of aircraft that burned gasoline.

1-Air cooled-(radial and pancake)
2-Inline/liquid cooled/supercharged

Air cooled required low octane, usually 88....
Liquid cooled/supercharged required high octane, usually 109-110....

If you put 110 oct in an air cooled corvair....well, sorry 4 u.

Racers could get 110 octane and jet accordingly when using a high compression car engine. It worked.

Now a days, with the supercharged Merlins and Allisons mostly gone from airplanes, the good-old-days 110 "AV" gas at the local airport is almost non-existant. Last time I bothered to look I saw 88 & 92 octane.

I know personally of Plane racers that get their gas from the same racing fuel companies that service the race tracks for car racing, not the airport....heh

(Yes, I am that old) Dont believe everything you hear from the local Hotrod Guru. Chances he heard it from someone else too. MIZ

the airport here is pretty old they have several types many of the ones listed they have the lower octane and also the stuff im using so im guessing i will have a hard time finding 100LL at any other airports then

no i think you can get it at any air port there is to small airports by me and you can get it at both .like i said i did use it in all my big block used it in my blown 548 and my 548 14.8 , 468 13to1 , 462 11to1 , a 572 13to1 and my 460 10.5 , i stop using it .the guy was my old boss said he did not want to sell it to me . he said he knew i was using it over the road ( i never said any thing to him or any one that pump it for me ). said he and i would get in trouble . but no fuel was ever pump in to the car at the airport . so i just buy race fuel now

As a side note, we wouldn't want anyone to use av gas in anything with a catalyic converter either.