Thread: Floor in Don Shillady roadster

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THE FOLLOWING IS AN EXERPT FROM A THREAD BY DON SHILLADY:I have been working on this firewall problem for a long time and I think it is finally finished enough to move on to installing the steering column. The problem was that the Bebops trans tunnel was so large and the brake pedal so far to the right that I could not get my foot anywhere convenient for an accelerator pedal so at the risk of ruining the whole 'glass body I cut out the tunnel flush with the upper firewall. That left a gaping inverted U-shaped hole at the bottom of the firewall and I messed around with that many different ways; you don't want to know how many different things I tried to patch that hole! Now I have a 16 gauge stainless steel sheet painted body color on the front of the indented 'glass firewall with a (1/4") aluminum plate in the inside to hang things on. The sandwich firewall is now about (1/2") thick and has a number of stainless bolts holding it together. There is about (1/2") or more between the bottom of the firewall and the R700 transmission housing, but of course if I ever need to remove the transmission I will have to unbolt the lower part of the firewall. There is also a sheet of Aluminum house-gutter flashing painted black bent at an angle around the seam of the firewall and the floor to keep out most of any splashes. Of course that also meant that I had to make a plywood floor but I put inner-tube rubber under the plywood and around the shifter opening. The shiny aluminum plate on the left of the brake pedal is where I will mount a foot-pedal dimmer switch, I really dislike the modern column dimmers and need something for my left foot to do. The conclusion is that with a SBC/R700 driveline there is little need for a transmission hump and I was able to salvage some of the 'glass hump for my new floor which is a lot more like the original Model-A floor. There must be an easier way, but I still don't know where my right foot was supposed to go with the original huge trans hump.

Don Shillady--Please don't take this as undue criticism, because it is not intended that way at all. You have created a terrible unstable mess by the modifications that you have made to the floor of your roadster. Those fiberglass bodies depend so much on the structural integrity of the floor to keep everything aligned and in place, and you have completely destroyed that by what you have done. The new wooden floor needs to be glassed to the remains of the existing glass floor on both sides,and at the rear. The remains of your tunnel that you have reused needs to be glassed to the new wooden floor, and also to the random peices of aluminum and stainless steel that you now have in there for a firewall.---And the random peices of steel and aluminum need to be glassed to the remains of your fiberglassed firewall. This should be done with at least 3 layers of matt and resin, and should overlap onto all the "new" peices and to the existing floor by at least 4". And the worst of it is, that it should be done on both the inside of the car and on the outside (underneath and on the firewall). You have cobbled together a bunch of peices that will keep your feet of the ground, but will in reality do very little else. I hate to be the bearer of such dreadfull news, and I sincerely hope that some of the other experienced builders like myself will jump in on this thread and verify what I have just told you.---Brian

Don,

I think you need to seriously consider what Brian said. Unless you glass in those various pieces, the flex in the body will eventually crack out your fasteners, and you will have a real problem.

It was tough fitting pedals in my car because of the hack job Gibbon did on the trans tunnel and the channel job. The photo below shows how I handled it.

Luckily, I happen to be one of those "left-foot-brake-weirdos", but I could have bent the brake arm a little differently to make it right-foot accessable.

Of course, I knew it would be tight in a channelled car, so I was willing to give up some space and adapt to it.

This is not a disaster beyond fixing, but if it is not fixed, it will certainly become one. All of the glassing required on the inside of the car body can easily be accomplished over a two day weekend. This will of course require some pre-planning, having the various peices of matt precut and numbered, rubber gloves, a warm garage, and a gallon of resin. The really dreadfull issue is that in your haste to have a finished car, you had all of the paintwork done far too soon in the evolution of your roadster. Before you do anything more, you are going to have to come up with a means of lifting the body off of your chassis, flipping it over, and glassing the underside. You can NOT do this without flipping the body upside down. Gravity will just keep making any new glass and resin work slump and fall off on the floor or on your head!!! I think probably a bunch of old rubber tires laid flat and covered with old blankets or something of that nature would serve as a bed to lay the body on, upside down, so that you can glass the underside of things. The firewall can be covered with a sheet of polished aluminum---AFTER the required glasswork is completed. You are not so far advanced with your build that you can not stop now and rectify things, but after the car is completely wired and upholstered, it will be a complete nightmare.

Like Brian, I never like to be critical of another persons work. We all have different ways of approaching things, and I have seen some unorthodox things work in the final analysis. But since the discussion has been opened, I have to agree. Fiberglass bodies do not like to flex at all. The majority of their strenth comes in from the floor and upright stringers. The body relies on these to be strong for things like door jam alignment and rigidity.

It does appear that this strength has been compromised by cutting so much out and patching metal and wood into the openings. Pictures only tell so much, but that seems to be the case.

Don

I disagree with taking the body off and upside down

It should be repaired on the frame where it is with everything fastened down so it will be properly stressed for the alignment

I also have an early Gibbons 33 and to get the floor around a 4l60 trans I eventually cut out the hole big enough for the trans

I then put a piece aprox 2 inch foam rubber packing material out off something that came into the shop, covered with wax paper and started laminating a new hump over the trans--this game me about 2 in clearance and minium obstruction inside the body--I laid several layers of mat/ woven glass and took my time ( got to savor the fumes) a small heat lamp hanging inside the body helped with the set up of the resin

All door opening gaps/alignment remained the same

Jerry

Jerry,

Did you get your '33 when Dwight was still in Nebraska - or after Kyle took over?

I bought it from Lee Nottigham at Frames and Thangs in Miss--he had it for his own project and I bought it with a load of stuff--later bought 3 more frames

I think the serial number is 0014 so its an early one and from Nebraska

The foam I used is flat on one side and sorta egg crate on the other--gives good uniform results with waxed or freezer paper---about 1 3/4 clearance and you can pull it out in pieces to remove it

Mine is #2137 - so it's a crappy one from Darlington . . .

I used the same general process to rebuild my tunnel, but I used masking tape over the foam, then I waxed it with automotive paste wax.

I just posted this on the other thread:

"I had to do significant bracing on my Brookville steel repro body - including welding most of the originally rivited internal body bracing. I then added 2 rows of 1"x.062 tubing, ran 1x.125 square tubing back to the trunk bracing, replaced the flooboards with a double insulated sandwich panel with .500 square bracing, then added a bunch under the dash. Unfortunately I don't have good digital photos of the underdash bracing but fair photos of the body proper. I did this because the OEM and Brookville bodies ore floppy in their 'native state' There are a couple of more floor braces I could have added and may yet. But it is at least rigid now - very!!!
This may be a way out without extra 'glassing

try freezer waxed paper ( butcher type ) or the new non-stick Reynolds Wrap alum foil

Jerry---There is merit in what you say. Let me enlarge a bit on my previous post. As you pointed out, the glassing should be done with the car on the frame.---That is to say, the inner glasswork. and then after it "kicks"---Everything I have ever read or studied on the creation of fiberglass bodies, or of glassing a floor into a T-Bucket style roadster,is very clear on the fact that an added floor, be it glass, plywood, or anything else, be glassed and tied into the main fiberglass body from both sides, to give a "sandwich" type of construction. This not only gives tremendous additional strength to the body, but also seals whatever is used as the floor material against moisture.---Brian

Very good point, Jerry. When we pull the Merc bodies from the mold and start assembling them, the body goes in a fixture and the floor is mounted on a set of frame rails that are very well braced and supported to prevent any movement or shift when the body, floor, and other parts are all glassed together....

Speaking of the good old days in Gibbon, Ne.....If any of you should ever see one of the 34Y bodies that Dwight used to build in the early 80's, I'd sure like a shot at getting hold of one.....