Thread: Painless wiring

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

Poor Big Tracks
All he wanted to do was buy a harness

Very true!!! But there's a whole lot more to having a good electrical system then just how much it cost.....

What is it Richard says about the money saved is forgotten, but the quality isn't?????

Lots of good "been there, done that" information, which should all be considered when buying components.....

Originally Posted by Geronimo

Poor Big Tracks
All he wanted to do was buy a harness

Thanks, Geronimo, and everybody else for the input.

I'm facing the fact that rewiring my '70 F100 is no longer something to be put off.

Dang it, you would think that wiring ought to last at least a lousy 38 years!

I inquired about Painless because I visited with a guy at a car show and complimented him on his neat wiring job. He told me it was Painless, but I'm not necessarily locked in on Painless and am looking at options. I'd be lying if I said that price isn't important, and Painless (by my standards anyway) is pricey.

A former employer of mine wired in control systems at manufacturing facilities and they regularly scrapped some fairly long pieces of RHRW (heat/water resistant) wire, which I had access to. Kitz, Don, Dave, and others have discussed the importance of using wire of the correct gauge for different applications. I can now see that my use of this scavenged wire has resulted in "overkill" in most cases. I'd guess that it's better to err in that direction than to put in wires of insufficient gauge.

Again, thanks for the information, gentlemen.

Jim

In the realm of Good News/Bad News, the "Its A SNAP" (1-866-462-7628) harness has terminating plugs on the ends of the cables. The good news is that for instance the whole plug is there for the three prong dimmer switch; it's a snap, just push on the connector (harness uses GM connectors). Good so far BUT you have to have the room to get the connector plugs to the end use. I had to reroute the wiring to allow for the size of the connector compared to just sliding the wires through a small place. It looks to me that I will have to cut the wires to the headlights to fish them through the flex cables of the Model A headlight buckets, so I guess that means soldering and shrink wrapping the reconnections. This is trivial stuff and unnecessary chit chat but I am trying to keep this thread going because as other folks chime in I learn new things and I really need help. My wife thought I would do the wiring in one day and John York told me he can wire a Cobra replica in 1 1/2 days but to me it looks like months are needed since every little thing needs thinking and rethinking because of the learning aspect. I have the Model ZZ-20 harness with 20 fuses and I bought the "Its A SNAP" harness because the same company makes the TPI-Tech instruments that I have, and they were selected to get the 4-in-1 quad unit. With 20 fuses I will have to block off some unused features but it is not sure yet what accessories I will/will not use. Again, has no one on this Forum used an "Its A SNAP" harness? I sure would like to hear some comments from some one else who has worked with this harness. Check out:

www.itsasnapwireandcable.com

Maybe I have something good but am too inexperienced to appreciate it. The wire discussed above from the alternator to the battery looks like a red 12 gauge multistrand wire that is clearly marked "alternator to battery" but I have a 100 amp one-wire alternator so I will look around for some 6 gauge or 8 gauge wire to substitute. On a previous dune buggy I used a solid 12 gauge (house) wire as a grounding bus to all the electrical items attached to the fiberglass body and it really improved the brightness of the headlights and brake lights but as I recall multistranded wire can carry more current than a solid wire so I guess that "alternator to battery" wire should be multistranded?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don,
This might be some good reading for your alternator wiring. You'll have to drill down para.12 to find their awg recommendation, but it looks like #6 or possibly even #4 depending on where your battery is mounted. (Which reminds me........I need some #6 )

FAQ-Alternators

I've only seen the It's a Snap Advertised, never encountered the system. As far as wiring your car - my guess is that if you have decent instructions and nothing exotic like a computerized management controls, a week of 2-3 hours a day should do the job which is my plan. A few more hours to neaten it up and off you drive

Don
Last year a similar thread was written on opinions and wiring packages. One member chimed in about using solid core wire from a construction site. A bunch of people commented that the solid wire was a bad choice, as , if I remember correctly, it is brittle and prone to snap. I guess with vibrations in a car, it can suddenly fail on you, so just another point to pass on to the do it yourselfers. Steve.

Wire is not something to scrimp on when doing a car..it is no fun to lay under a dash in the middle of nowhere trying to find a bad splice!!

Del City sells automotive wire (as I have posted before). Their wire catalog is at
http://www.delcity.net/delcity/docum...wire_cable.pdf

Use either their GXL or SXL wire which is good up to 125 degrees C...about 257 deg F. It is not much more expensive than the really crappy PVC wire at the junk auto supply stores. IF you crimp, do a test pull afterward...a real tug to make sure you have it done properly...if in doubt, solder the connections like the professionals do. Remember, every splice, crimp and terminal is a potential open circuit so minimize the splices if possible.

Mike in Tucson

But one thing that I've read alot about is not soldering connections.

Yeah, I like the old fashion way of splicing wire too. Strip the wire ends with your teeth, twist the two ends together and cover with scotch tape to protect from metal contact. Known to last a lifetime if treated nicely.

There's a lot of good wiring kits on the market, most with quality parts and wires. Nearly all come now with color coded wires that are marked for the purpose. Some are terminated at the fuse block, some are not. Some are easy to add more circuits, others not. What I have found to be most important is the quality of work put in by the installer. Installing with patience, and common sense, usually results in a very good wiring job.

Originally Posted by stovens

Last year a similar thread was written on opinions and wiring packages. One member chimed in about using solid core wire from a construction site.

Lest anybody think I'm tightwad enough to use a piece of Romex or some other solid house-wire in my car, I ain't!

Everything I liberated from the scrap box was expensive stranded stuff with special coatings to withstand abuse that even I couldn't subject it to.

I know you're not suggesting that I would do that, Steve. The advice is good. Solid copper wire will take only so much flexing, then it can provide you with a challenging situation.

Jim

IC2 I bookmarked that site and will study it. Today I worked on the bracket to mount the heater on my ad hoc fire wall and mounting the heater switch on the passenger side of the dash where my wife can change the heat as needed. I like a heater but can wear a hat and overcoat if needed! Anyway I measured the O.D. of a bona fide 10 gauge wire and found it to be about 4.5 mm while the red wire that came with my "Its A SNAP" kit measures about 6 mm. I chatted with the Tech guy at ITs-A-SNAP and he said some kits went out with 10 gauge wire and some with 8 gauge wire for the alternator to battery connection so it would seem that I probably have an 8 gauge wire for that connection and it is multistranded. As far as having the connectors already on the ends of the wire, the Tech guy recommended their H5 bulb kit with the LED in the bottom. Although the kit is $175, replacements for the high/low beam is just H5 bulb while the yellow LED is rated to last 100,000 hours. The hitch is that to use that bulb with a Model A flex conduit you have to get five wires pulled through the conduit; he says it can be done and then you end up with an H5 bulb and an amber LED for a parking light and turn signal. The Tech guy recommended cutting of the three prong connector with a 4" pigtail and then reconnecting the wires inside the headlight bucket. I am starting to think that is the way out of my dilemma with turn signals in the front and adding LEDs in the Model A teacup tailights for turn signals in the rear.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

This subject is my specialty Big T. If you were closer I could do the job for you. $$

My prefered panel and harness kit. I don't think any one kit is easier than another. Look for a quality panel and use only GXL wire.

Originally Posted by robot

Wire is not something to scrimp on when doing a car..it is no fun to lay under a dash in the middle of nowhere trying to find a bad splice!!

Del City sells automotive wire (as I have posted before). Their wire catalog is at
http://www.delcity.net/delcity/docum...wire_cable.pdf

Mike in Tucson

Thanks for the link Mike! Some really first rate wiring and connectors!!!!

i have been using painless since day one. i have never had a problem with any of them . there are many clones out there now for less but less is not always better. papa always said " you cant sell a 1k bull for 500 and keep the farm long " over the last 30 years or so i have learned a painful lesson about shopping to save money on parts. it just not worth it to me.

Originally Posted by robot

Here is a supplier of real handy parts if you are wiring. These guys have a booth at SEMA and cater to the automotive market.

Del City - Wiring Products and Professional Electrical Supplies

Their web catalog is interesting to browse thru.

Mike in Tucson

.....Thanks Mike! They've got some interesting stuff! I like the wire ties that snap into a drilled hole! Bill

Originally Posted by Geronimo

This subject is my specialty Big T. If you were closer I could do the job for you. $$

My prefered panel and harness kit. I don't think any one kit is easier than another. Look for a quality panel and use only GXL wire.

Thanks for the picture and thanks for the advice, Geronimo. That's a beautiful installation.

Jim