Thread: Rad Grill Question

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Nice look and practical!

Looks good.

Paint the radiator core black and call it good.

Model A's have been running that way for years.

And . . . when you think about it, not a whole lot of protection from 32 grille shells either.

C9, I am frustrated trying to get information on radiator fans. With my very mild cam can I get away with a 15" mechanical fan on my Model A radiator (Walker 487-1). I have ordered a "heavy duty" six blade non-flex stock car fan and have a max-flo water pump. The question of this thread is for a 383 with a smaller radiator and he is using a strong electric fan but I want to avoid the electric fan if possible. The V8 emblem in this thread is neat and adds a unique touch to this T.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Thanks for the comments guys, I dressed it up a bit with some trim:

Sean

Don---The biggest problem with a mechanical fan in a small block driven model A, is that the fan sets too low (close to the bottom of the radiator) to really be effective. If you really want to use a mechanical fan, then get a Zips hi-rise adapter for the water pump. This is not a cheap solution, but it does raise the waterpump and the mechanical fan up about 4" from the stock position, and it makes all the difference in the world.---Brian

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

C9, I am frustrated trying to get information on radiator fans. With my very mild cam can I get away with a 15" mechanical fan on my Model A radiator (Walker 487-1). I have ordered a "heavy duty" six blade non-flex stock car fan and have a max-flo water pump. The question of this thread is for a 383 with a smaller radiator and he is using a strong electric fan but I want to avoid the electric fan if possible. The V8 emblem in this thread is neat and adds a unique touch to this T.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

One thing with the fat-blade stainless fans, most of them have the blades set 'on center' with the hub.
True with the 17" Derale I have.

If you need the blades to go to the rear a bit, Hayden makes a similar fat-blade fan, but its blades are set to the rear of the hub.

(Viewed from the side in both cases.)

Here's a couple pics showing the fan.
Note that it sits quite low on the 455 Buick engine.






My 32 roadster with 462" Buick engine runs a 17" Hayden fan and sitting as low as it does it cools the engine quite well.
So low that the bottom tank of the Walker 4-core radiator would be hit by the fan blades if the fan were a touch forward.

I do have a shroud, but I've run without it and the engine runs cool.

The fan in the pic of the 31 on 32 rails roadster is a 15" Hayden.
I'm fairly sure it will cool ok.

At the time, the 31 had a US Radiator that was a touch tall for the 31 even though it was a 32 radiator 1" shorter than the standard 32 radiator.

I have a new aluminum radiator for the 31 and that will allow the use of a 17" fan if necessary.
To boot, it's thinner than the Walker 4-core and will allow the 17" Derale fat-blade stainless fan to be used since there's a lot more room between fan and radiator.

Fwiw - on the 32 I had to trim one sheave off the 3 sheave crank pulley so the fan would fit.
Which also means only one V-belt on the 32, but even with minimal V-belt wrap on the water pump pulley it's working ok.

Funny part was, the 31 has enough room for a three sheave crank pulley and dual V-belts with the same style alternator mount and minimal V-belt wrap on the water pump pulley.
The three sheave Buick crank pulley being a bit of a moot point now since I've adapted Chevy aluminum pulleys to Buick harmonic dampener and water pump along with a Ford style dual pulley on the alternator.

My experience with a low fan on the big Buicks has them working quite well.

Far as the SBC goes, I'm not sure the water pump riser is really needed and I'd give the stock SBC location a try before I went to the riser.

Thanks C9! Great pictures. I just chatted with the tech guy at Speedway and he thought the simple tunnel shroud they sell might help and that with my mild cam it might work with the low water pump. It is encouraging to see you got it to work with the Big Buick and your climate is hotter on average where you are as well! I will try the 15" fan with some sort of tunnel shroud and from your pictures it looks like it might work OK. Sorry to pirate the "V8 Radiator" thread but I did several searches and could not find an answer. Thanks for Brian's comments too, I know the fan would be better up high but let me try it where it is and see if I can get it to work with just a tunnel shroud.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

What do you think about the flex fans? I've heard just negative stuff so far, about the blades flattening out , and that they are prone to break off and go flying into the radiator. My race care friend is convinced the fixed blade fans are the best. I'm still thinking of going with an electrical unit.

I just got off the phone with Deralle and the Tech guy at Speedway. The Deralle guy said the nylon fans are easier on the water pump shaft but a 16" nylon fan will not move as much air as a 15" flex fan. I agree about the flex fan possibility of metal fatigue and losing a blade into an expensive radiator. I just ordered a speedway fixed blade 15" stock car fan with aluminum blades, Part No. 910-1576-15. The tricky thing is that this fan has 3/4" of the blades in front of the flat part and 3/4" in back. On the one hand that means the blades will be able to sweep off the air from the back of the radiator better, but there is less clearance with the radiator fins so I picked the aluminum blades so maybe if the blades do hit the radiator there will be less damage. Boy it's tight down by the drain petcock and the lower water connection, a 16" fan might fit but I could not find a 16" metal fan and the nylon 16" probably will not pull as much air. As far as the protection on the front of the radiator as asked in this thread, the 1929 Ford has a possible accessory stainless screen that is used by restorers as protection and added bling, I may use one of those myself. The mesh of that device is pretty coarse, maybe 1/2" but probably it also blocks some air flow. Maybe one of them could be cut down for a T radiator but he has already solved his problem with the metal V8 emblem.

Don Shillady
Retired SCientist/teen rodder

Good to know Don, Thanks!

After checking out the Parr site I could not find the Zip accessory there but it is available on the Southern site at:

http://www.southernrods.com/categori...duct-1845.html

That is a bit more than I want to pay including a new water pump and messing with the alternator mount again, so I have ordered a Deralle 15" heavy duty flex fan from nearby Doug Herbert parts and will compare both the Speedway 15" non-flex which has the 3/4" inch front edge and a Deralle 15" which has all of the blade to the rear of the flat part. The Deralle is a flex fan but with stainless blades so maybe the danger of blade loss is less with the steel blades? The Tech guy at Doug Herbert in nearby NC says most of their fan orders are for the performance flex fans which have triangular blades which probably move less air than the heavy duty fan. So far I am impressed with the pictures from C9X and he has not steered me wrong yet and is among the several folks on this Forum from whom I have received good advice. It is interesting that one of the angles on the flex fan idea is now that it increases mpg! Maybe that is only a small effect but I probably will stay with the Deralle 15" with the added advice here and from the tech guy at Doug Herbert to use a 160 degree thermostat, a little low for performance but better for cooling in traffic? Sorry to bother you folks with my waffeling but IC2 warned me that one of the main needs for swap meets is to get rid of multiple tries at finding a working combination. Thanks all for helpful suggestions.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Well I actually do not know how to start a new thread and this topic is not worth a separate thread so maybe I can use this discussion of radiators for a question. I show a picture of my attempt at finding a lower hose for my A radiator. I tried and wasted one right angle hose and then went to the local NAPA outlet and the guy there let me wander through the racks until I found something close to the shape I thought would fit. I have looked at the corrugated metal type hose and I may use one for the long upper hose but the lower one is very short. It is only 10" long on the outside of the bend and about 6" on the inside. The hose needs a right angle bend AND a kick back bend to line up with the bottom outlet on the radiator. What I have now is NAPA part No. 7390 with 3" cut off of one end and about 6"cut off the other end. Considering some of the superb builds on this Forum, my hose is functional but not perfect so I am wondering what other folks with Model A radiators do for this problem?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

You can buy short 90 degree hoses.
Two of those, a piece of 1 1/2" tubing - exhaust tubing works fine - four hose clamps and you can make your own custom hose.

I ran one of these for 3-4 years and used it as a pattern to find a one piece hose later on.

Thanks C9!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Brian Rupnow,

I have gone round and round on the fan installation for my roadster. The best suggestion so far is from Brookville which sells an electric fan rated at about 2000 CFM shich may be marginal. The tech guy at Brookville says they cut out part of the mesh screen bars at the bottom of the fan cage for the nose of the water pump and use a 16" fan. That might work but the fan is probably marginal since another tech guy at Walker Radiators says a SBC 350 needs at least 2500 CFM. I have also chatted with the Tech guy at Southern Parts who sell the Zip riser and he said the nose of the Chevy 6 cyl pump it uses will be at the same tight 1 1/4" clearance with the present short V8 pump. I tried three fans so far and they all had a "forward twist" on the blades that just hit the fittings for the transmission cooler on the bottom of the radiator. So far the clearance between the inner face of the radiator and the alternator pully face is just 4" and the alternator invades part of the center space behind the radiator which may interfere with an electric fan motor. Also I recall you saying your fan can draw up to 90 amps on startup and the Walker guy said theirs draws 70 amps on startup but only about 15 amps when running. In addition the Speedway fan relay is only rated at 40 amps. There is a lot of conflicting information out there so I wonder if you have a picture of your fan from the engine side? At this point the best setup (?) is probably the Zip riser but the guy at Southern

http://www.southernrods.com/categori...duct-1845.html

recommended moving the engine back for more clearance which is the last thing I want to do. It is not so bad buying and keeping/exchanging $35 fans but I can't afford to absorb $300 experiments unless there is a pretty good chance I can make it work. Maybe the Zip setup is best but then I may need another shroud so the idea of an electric fan with a built-in shroud for less than $200 is appealing if it will work. Can you send me any pictures of your setup? I would especially like to see the clearance of the nose of the water pump relative to the fan and the inner side of the radiator.


C9X, So far I have not found a fan that does not have the forward twist of the blades. Can you recall who might have such a fan in case I use the low fan/pump setup? I am still very surprised you can run a low fan with a big engine in the Southwest heat. I want to believe that would work for me if I can find a 15" fan without the forward twist but I am still researching possibilities.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder