Thread: Electricals - phew

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Ron Francis doesn't like wiring diagrams. He supplies step-by-step directions. That - and a lack of location for additional relays are my main complaints with his stuff.

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Ron Francis doesn't like wiring diagrams. He supplies step-by-step directions. That - and a lack of location for additional relays are my main complaints with his stuff.

Verbals are fine but I'm still enough of an engineer to relate to pictures (schematics) better then someones idea on what is meant

Dave, didnt realize that some kits had schematics....most that I have seen use the crazy written instructions that makes no sense.... they do more to confuse the assemblyer. I havent use many kits since we do our own wiring from scratch anyway in order to choose the components that we want to use (size/type of wire, connections, and components). Painless' descriptions are a real pain.

mike in tucson

Originally Posted by robot

Dave, didnt realize that some kits had schematics....most that I have seen use the crazy written instructions that makes no sense.... they do more to confuse the assemblyer. I havent use many kits since we do our own wiring from scratch anyway in order to choose the components that we want to use (size/type of wire, connections, and components). Painless' descriptions are a real pain.

mike in tucson

I just flopped a page of my schematic on the scanner and took a picture of the center (my scanner wont do "B" size pages). It will give you an idea of what I'm using. The quality of the AAW schematics is good - this is poor due to my scanner

It's still in progress??? And I'm not showing the rest of the mess of snake pit of wires..... yet

IC2, Phew is right. As you predicted, my summer job is eating into garage time to a large extent and at present I am stuck at completing the installation of the Zip water pump riser on my SBC350. The mechanical stuff is aasembled except for finding the right fan belt and cutting out the hole in the shroud but my morning job is keeping me quite busy.

Robot, the idea of making my own circuit diagram is interesting; my kit did not come with a diagram but I have a book on wiring hot rods with some schematics. I guess the part about wires being too long or too short is sort of what is holding me back. Before I started my summer job I was making progress by just sitting in the garage with a wet towel around my neck in front of a window fan and just "Doing what comes next". Actually that works OK but I think I will have a bout with hood-fitting. I can put off hood fitting to work on the wiring and basically I have been finding excuses in terms of added mechanical work to put off the wiring job. I guess when I run out of mechanical chores I will just have to start putting in some wires and make a few learing mistakes. While I am here I will admit I really do not have a good understanding of all the various fittings needed in the Edelbrock intake. For instance there is a threaded hole just behind the distributor hole that might be for an oil pressure gauge fitting? That may be hold down screw but there is also a threaded hole in the block which I have plugged with a bolt now that may be for the oil pressure? Where do I connect the Tach, etc.? Again the intake manifold has several small threaded holes and presumeably I will have to plug the ones I do not use? A lot of the time I really wish I had a flathead so I could rely on memories from long ago in the sense that one tends to remember stuff learned at an early age rather than have to jump into a 1980s "modern" engine! I just have to tell myself to be glad I do not have a computerized FI engine, hah! Basically my problem is similar to what IC2 said, many of the wires are deceptively too long but cutting them without careful thinking will probably require resplicing pieces, but I guess I am just whining about unknown things to come. Actually I need a diagram for small plumbing connections on the engine as well as an electrical diagram. I have a Chilton's manual for the 1976 Corvette from which my 350 came but it is all factory diagrams and not a whole lot of help for the Edelbrock setup. Still I am just whining and will do things as they come along when I get time, but thanks for this thread as yet another learning process.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

What we do is to first have a drawing of the entire circuit. The drawing identifies the wire size and color, of course. (we are not using a kit, we are building our own harness). We install wires by routing them all before they are terminated.....so all the bundles are there so we can check the size, clearances, etc. As we route the wires, we can use a highlighter to mark off the wire on the drawing so we dont forget wires or do too many.

When we finish routing, we start terminating at one end...usually the field end. Again, we mark the terminations off as they are done. Then, we terminate at the fuse block/relay/whatever.

Troubleshooting is done one fuse circuit at at time...insert the single fuse, check the circuit, remove the fuse and go to the next. If we have a major short, we are kinda isolated this way.

I keep a drawing of each car because I cant remember squat when we need to add stuff.

mike in tucson

Don,
With wiring - that's why I went with the AAW setup. Go back a couple of posts and you will see a part of one of the schematics that came with my 'kit', almost too much information. That schematic plus separate diagrams and drawings for each system and subsystem. Then, of course now come the mechanical problems of where to put pieces you thought would fit .... but don't. I'm sitting here staring at my coil. The @#$%$#@% thing wont work with it's bracket where I had it mounted with a passel of wires now in place. That's going to be put aside as tomorrows problem. As far as some wires being too short -so far only one pair but I rerouted and they now 'work'.

It sounds like you need to sit down with a few 'B' drawing size pieces of paper, 11x16, and draw up sketchs of what you nned and want. It has to be easier then that Cray knock off computer you built

Robot and IC2, Thanks that does help formulate the problem. I see now I can/should string out the wires without connection and make a diagram as I go and then I can cut the wires to length and make a working diagram as I go. Any comments on where to connect:

1976 SBC 350
1. Tach
2. vacuum advance
3. Oil pressure hole in the block
4. Plug other holes in the manifold ?????

I know they are dumb questions but usually it takes me three tries of misfit parts to get it right and maybe you can save me some time.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

If you have an HEI distributor, there is a tach terminal on the side of the cap facing downward...right next to the power input connector.

For the vacuum advance, you connect to the carb (it is a carb?) for ported vacuum (above the butterflies) ...however, some setups use true manifold (below butterflies)...especially some engines that had the thermal vacuum switch. Also, there are different vacuum advance cans for HEI distributors....any GM can will fit but they pull different advance amounts.

Oil pressure hole in the block??? A sender goes in this hole, it is usually matched to the gauge that you are using. It is 1/8NPT on Chevys. This hole is at the rear of the block facing upward and just behind the manifold....correct?

There aren't many other holes in the manifold...perhaps a big 3/8NPT hole just behind the carb that is for the power brakes, maybe a water hole at the front passenger side, and maybe an EGR port on the passenger side of the carb.
Did I miss one?

Mike in Tucson

Robot,
Thanks for tolerating my dumb questions. Yes that tapped hole on the rear of the block on the drivers side of the distributor hole certainly has oil because I have pre-lubed with an electric drill several times and loosely plugged that hole with a bolt but the pressurized oil still came out of the hole a little bit so that pins down the oil pressure hole. I will have to go over the intake again to check out the holes you mention but that is helpful. I do have a HEI distributor so I will look for the tach connector now that I know where to look, thanks. The vacuum advance may be a problem since I did not know there are several versions/sizes. I have connected a braided hose to the carb, yes an edelbrock 650 cfm carb, I see one threaded hole I can use in the intake for a heater hose but there is another large threaded hole which I will check out an maybe plug. I will reread your message and look over the intake connections again. Today I did my morning part time job and then messed with the Zip water pump some more. It took me four tries to get the right fan belt but I have been dealing with a friendly local parts dealer who favors blue oval street rods but is interested in helping me so I just kept trying until I found a belt that is 53 5/8" long and it fits fine! The Zip directions suggested a 52" belt but with different adjusting arm; I am using a nice chromed "universal" arm from Speedway and the slightly larger belt was needed. Thanks for you help! IC2 would help but he is involved with a SBF Ford engine. So far I have added shims to the nose of the water pump pully so that the fan blades clear the alternator pully bolt by about 1/8" but I may have to change that if the fan is too close to the radiator honeycomb. I will not know that until I get the shroud cut out (next).

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by IC2

It's still in progress??? And I'm not showing the rest of the mess of snake pit of wires..... yet

Hi Dave, Glad to see your wiring is almost at an end. I too went with AAW Highway 15 for my 30 roadster. Boy you have lots of room to spare under your front cowl. You should see mine with the Vintage Air Gen II super cooler evaporator box in there...and my fuse panel is under the dash too. I can't wait to see pics of your completed roadster when it is on the road. I'm praying mine will be done in 2 or 3 more weeks. Keep up the good work.

My last 3 wire jobs have been with Painless systems. Jason in customer support is a real wizzard and nice to talk to. I can't stump him even with dumb questions. haha. Thanks for the help Jason.

I guess all the systems have too long and too short wires and not the right gage. Not a real problem. I made my own relay and circuit breaker system for the last project which had 6 high power halogen head lights and fog light. I also added the fan relay to the box as it's wires went forward too. You can buy this stuff but I like to waste time making stuff...if you get my point.

Merging other electrical devices such as A/C, power windows, door locks, and EFI all seem to take unexpected connections.

So far my only real complaint is the high cost of a few connectors that I have had to get at the hardware store. Yikes $0.50 each for spade connectors.

I just bought a few hundred bucks worth of stuff from the local electrical supply so I now have every common connector available as well as Weather pack and Packard multipin stuff. I just got fed up with being gouged for a needed connector or part. I have enough heat shrink to wrap the whole car....in several sizes. haha

It can be a challenge to keep things neat and sorted out in the confined space of a streetrod. It's not out of line to install the fuse center behind the seat or in the trunk. This winter I'm considering this for my Willys which is a nightmare under the dash.

One last ramble....as with most "complete systems" don't think that every last nut and bolt is there. You still are going to make many trips to the "store" to get some needed items. Be sure to allow some extra gas dollars for this.

Originally Posted by stylingZ

Hi Dave, Glad to see your wiring is almost at an end. I too went with AAW Highway 15 for my 30 roadster. Boy you have lots of room to spare under your front cowl. You should see mine with the Vintage Air Gen II super cooler evaporator box in there...and my fuse panel is under the dash too. I can't wait to see pics of your completed roadster when it is on the road. I'm praying mine will be done in 2 or 3 more weeks. Keep up the good work.

Hi Mike - The wiring is going fairly well, just takes time. There are a few more wires to run but it's been really hot and humid here and really limits my day. I decided to put the module in back of the seat - my a/c and reinforcing steel made it tough to get the rat's nest out of sight - now I have the runs along the floorboards where they will be imbedded in my carpet insulation. I'm glad one of us is about done - I'm hoping to get mine back to the upholsterer for final installation about when yours will be done. I need to see more pictures from your project!!!!

Bentwings, I have had the same kind of customer service from Don at AAW as you have had from Painless.

Hidden costs - the extra relays, another 7' long length of 1ga, 3 $6.00 toggle switches, a main shut off, a secondary fuse panel, connectors, more wire for the add-ons, hundreds of wire ties, a battery box, etc, etc, etc, etc and probably to the tune of a 2-3 hundred dollars. I'm at the point of having most everything wired and in a general run, with final neatening up coming soon, this week, hopefully. Now - off for some bolts I'm short of, then back to work

When got my 29 it already was set up using a vintage 1960 Ron Francis wiring kit. It has not failed me yet but it is ugly. The attached photo was taken right after i got the car. (under seat location)