Thread: Electricals - phew

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IC2, Happy New Year! I am over my cold now and we had two warm days while company was here but now we have some severe wind as the cold front rolls in. I am hesitant to get my head cold back again so soon and plan to stay out of the garage for a while but I hooked up with the guy who worked with us on our upstairs room last summer and he is formerly an electrician from the phone company and I am hoping I can hire him for less than the nearby Cobra shop ($70/hr) and maybe a few days with him will get most of the work done when we get a few warmer days. I also realize I need to set up some luan plywood kick panels for my speakers before I put the dash wiring in. I will mess with some luan panels to get ready for the final push on the wiring. I had an idea recently to just finish the headlights and tailights to test them on the battery before I go further. I am hoping to hide the dash wiring up under the cowl with only the one present main plastic conduit under the inside door ledge. From your pictures I see you have a sort of shelf under your cowl so maybe I need to add a small luan shelf on the square tubing framework behind the dash and under my cowl. I want to hide the blinker units but still allow them to be accessible for easy replacement if needed. From my pictures you can see my fuse box is pretty low for easy access and above my foot space but I still need to hide quite a rats nest of instrumentation wires. The problem is that they should all be pretty short but I hesitate to cut them before they are working or maybe I would have to patch in splices later if I make a mistake. Probably the sensible thing to do is to leave them with 6" extra length and bind them up in a snake behind the dash that will allow extension if necessary. I know I am admitting my amateur inexperience because although I did teach myself some solid state electronics in my science career and learned by just replacing fried compontents. I am uncomfortable by the big amp sparks possible with 12v DC and I prefer to not fry my expensive instruments! Just admitting my inexperience and talking this over here gives me some ideas, thanks! No wonder guys in Florida and SoCal are so active building rods with good weather year round (except for an occasional hurricane!). The guys in Canada and the Northern plain states must have better built garages with good heaters. I am sort of in between with mostly mild weather but a cheapo frame garage that is a potential tinder box. I gave up looking at the thread on the "best garages" because the large garages with checkerboard floors, inside heat and cement block walls are like heaven compared to my frame shack. I will just do the best I can with what I have! Thanks for your pictures!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Hi Don, and a Happy New Year to you as well!!!!

Glad that you have had a couple of virus free warm days. Except for that one day and a couple of hours the next - it's been snow, cold and nasty here - yuk!

As far as kick panels - my upholsterer did mine as well as install the speakers - one in each plus one each side of the seats so that wiring isn't in yet, but is ready for him to, with my help put in.

The shelf that I have was an item that Brookville screwed up on my initial body order - I ordered a 5" recessed fire wall and they provided a 3". Then TCI installed the engine mounts an inch too far back. I ended up recessing the bottom half only so I could mount my air. What I ended up with was a couple of errors by some manufacturers that was to my benefit regardless of the large number of hours that it took to do the "fix".

It's not a bad Idea to leave a bit of wiring slack. Under dash, mine are basically cut to length plus an inch or two for maintenance. Unfotunately, I should have left about 6" for the wiring coming forward from my rear mounted module. My upholsterer WILL NOT be happy.

I have to agree that your garage could be built with a hobbyist in mind, but it seems that anything South of PA, unless specially built is that way. Luckily my house was built in the day (1972) of land barges so have a sturdy, sheet rocked big 2 car one (~24x30) though not heated. I've partitioned off one sid so my heaters at least have a chance, but not today - it's +3 now with a 25mph wind.

Oops - just got called to take my wife shopping, visiting daughter #4 has her car - my wife doesn't like driving my F350 in parking lots as the turning radius is about the size of a football field

Originally Posted by IC2

Hi Don, and a Happy New Year to you as well!!!!

Except for that one day and a couple of hours the next - it's been snow, cold and nasty here - yuk!

As far as kick panels - my upholsterer did mine as well as install the speakers - one in each plus one each side of the seats so that wiring isn't in yet, but is ready for him to, with my help put in.

Oops - just got called to take my wife shopping, my wife doesn't like driving my F350 in parking lots as the turning radius is about the size of a football field

Hey to IC2 and Don and Randy. Happy New Year to you all! And every one else reading this!!

Like you IC2, we're in the single digits and with the wind chill it's below zero! I'm not supposed to be shoveling so I run the snow blower as much as I can stand and shovel "just a bit" LOL..

It's much to cold to go to the shop. By the time it gets "tolerable" my feet are frozen, so I just sit around the house, or help out where I can. I'm getting real good at doing the dishes! 8-(
And I'm learning the prices of cold cuts and other household items!! Did I mention I hate the winter?!?!?!

You know. I never even thought about doin' the kick panels and maybe I should mount some speakers in there.... HHHhhhMMMmmmmm... more wiring.. Anyway, may 2009 be better than "08" was for all of us!

You guys are keeping me going, although it is required to watch at least three football games today! I thought the kick panels had to have some stiffness in them to act as a sort of guitar box sound space with the cowl wall? Anyway in my case I also need to kluge up some panels for the inside of the rumble seat area to cover to fuel filter on the right rear and the corregated wiring loom on the left side so I guess I will try to cut out some luan panels for the rumble sides too. The problem on the right side is that I may need a flap hole to change the fuel filter and on the left side I hate to waste the space along the inside of the quarter panel for tools and assorted accessories/spare parts (rattles are required in a Ford!) so I need another access flap hole there too. Bratton's makes facimile Model A carboard sides for the rumble area and if they are not very expensive it might be worth using them as an initial template for the thin 1/8" plywood rather than use trial and error carboard cutouts, so far all the repo parts from Brattons have fit the Bebops body with no problem. The 1" square tubing in the Bebops body comes across the back of the seat so another panel there could have a wide pocket attached as well, but I will leave the 4" gap at the bottom for extra toe space. As it is now if an adult has to sit back there the extra toe space could be an important comfort requirement. Being indoors for a while and just chatting here does give me a chance to make plans. Every time I try to "just do it" I end up doing it two or three times anyway so it makes sense to me to bounce ideas off of the folks here. I attach an old picture of my fuel filter which does not quite show the battery cutoff handle down on the floor which also needs access.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don, you might consider putting the kick panels on with dzus fasteners for easy removal thereby eliminating the need for access panels.

NFTDAY, Thanks for the idea of the Dzus fasteners. It may be tricky since the back part of the rumble panels sort of wedge alongside the gas-tank-seat. I would like to meet Henry Rifle some day at Virginia Beach, park the car for a swim and turn off the gas line as well as the battery and lock the deck lid for security and then when it is time to drive home just reach in and turn on the gas line and switch the battery on again so I need an easy way to do that. As usual it is another occasion for innovation! I checked the Bratton catalog for the stock 1929 rumble panels and found they want $136 for a pair so it will be cheaper to just get some cardboard boxes from a supermarket and make several cut out patterns till I get something I think will work and then cut out the panels from luan. The Dzus fasteners could be around a hole big enough for the desired access and leave the rest of the panels more or less permanently fixed to the 1" square tubing. It is worth thinking over.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

....just a quick reply - my upholsterer used industrial strength Velcro to fasten my trunk panels - fast, cheap and easy.

Here's a tiny bit of progress. Yesterday and the day before we had miserable cold rain so I stayed inside. Two days ago it was 58 F in the garage and I cut out cardboard templates of kick panels for the upholsterer in the front and the rumble quarter panels. As usual you just have to do stuff to see what comes next and I now realize I have four speakers on my AM/FM so where to put the rear speakers? It also means new wires from under the dash to the remote speakers. Thanks for the several suggestions, I think I will still use 1/8" luan plywood for the front kick panels but let the upholsterer use their hardboard for the rear with whatever stitching they do. I did want some accessory pockets in the rear quarter panels for tools and small spare parts but the right rear is now cluttered up with the fuel filter; maybe I can still get one large pocket inside the left quarter panel. I think the plywood in the front is needed to make guitar-like sounding boxes for the main front speakers and take whatever normal kicks occur from squirming around inside the small cockpit but that means I need to get these finalized before I route the wires from under the dash. I can mount the rear speakers on a flat panel in the rumble seat on the back of the front seat and that means wires there too. IC2 do you have rear speakers and if so where did you put them? It is sunny today so maybe I can cut out the luan panels for the front.

Don Shillady
Retired SCientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Here's a tiny bit of progress. Yesterday and the day before we had miserable cold rain so I stayed inside. Two days ago it was 58 F in the garage and I cut out cardboard templates of kick panels for the upholsterer in the front and the rumble quarter panels. As usual you just have to do stuff to see what comes next and I now realize I have four speakers on my AM/FM so where to put the rear speakers? It also means new wires from under the dash to the remote speakers. Thanks for the several suggestions, I think I will still use 1/8" luan plywood for the front kick panels but let the upholsterer use their hardboard for the rear with whatever stitching they do. I did want some accessory pockets in the rear quarter panels for tools and small spare parts but the right rear is now cluttered up with the fuel filter; maybe I can still get one large pocket inside the left quarter panel. I think the plywood in the front is needed to make guitar-like sounding boxes for the main front speakers and take whatever normal kicks occur from squirming around inside the small cockpit but that means I need to get these finalized before I route the wires from under the dash. I can mount the rear speakers on a flat panel in the rumble seat on the back of the front seat and that means wires there too. IC2 do you have rear speakers and if so where did you put them? It is sunny today so maybe I can cut out the luan panels for the front.

Don Shillady
Retired SCientist/teen rodder

Don, Weather - here? It's crummy! Has been for weeks. Rain, sleet and snow yesterday and just snow today - which of course means that car work has temporarily come to a halt - which of course also means that since Thanksgiving, the weather has been such that I can't drag it 75 miles North through the Adirondacks to the upholsterer unless I can find a closed trailer

Why not let the upholsterer make up your inside panels. He has the right materials and tools??? Speaker wires - he can do them as well as long as you supply the materials.

I have 4 speakers for my stereo/radio - two in the kick panels and two kinda behind me. With a small car, it's tough to get them right - and with a roadster, even worse. Here are some pictures of where mine are mounted. The access panel is for my wiring module. For tools and maps, he has put big pockets on the back side of my Glide Engineering seats





The color is incorrect on this one - but will give you a general idea with the console(currently unfinished) in place:

IC2, thanks for the pictures, I mainly wanted to see you spacing on the speakers in the kick panel. Unfortunately I have a 1" square bar across where your speakers are so I guess I need to move them up rather than down relative to actual foot kicks.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Well IC2 after looking at your nice interior with the speakers I started to install the speakers in my cramped '29 cockpit. The problem for me is that there is a 1" square bar across the sides of the cowl so I had to place the speakers higher up. The next problem was that the speakers I bought from the now defunct Circuit City needed more depth by almost 1" so I cut out a donut from 3/4" pine board and fastened it to the 3/16" Luan panel board and that gave the needed clearance to the inside of the cowl sides. I am making slow progress with the wiring but it is not pretty. The donuts on each side are held in place with four screws and epoxy. I am hoping to test the radio with the speakers before finishing the wiring using an auxiliary power supply. I am not enjoying the wiring but it has to be done and hopefully tie wraps will clean up much of the clutter,

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don, It looks like you are working late again!!

With the limited room, I bought some very shallow speakers from Crutchfield to fit in that kick panel as I too have a bar running diagonally near where the speakers are situated. You look like you are doing it right.

Isn't wiring fun!! I actually did enjoy doing mine - that is to a point!!! I removed the A/C and installed a heater which did clear a lot of access space behind the dash. I felt that A/C in a roadster was a bit more then necessary - but will keep the components JIC I finish the hard top (the solid top framework is built but not covered).

I want to keep this thread going since it is my main connection to sanity for the wiring project. Although I got sidetracked with the top bows recently, I did learn a new trick for the grounding when I messed with the wiring for the wiper motor. It turns out the Bebops body has 1" square tubing framework inside the 'glass shell and the doors are hung from a substantial metal plate that runs up the front of the door wells welded to the tubing frame so I have found that I can use the bolts on the door hinges for grounding posts which are hidden inside which makes for shorter ground wires. The 1" square tubing is grounded to the frame and the negative post of the battery with 00 size welding cable at the base of the cowl. At first I tried using a common stud for all the ground wires inside the cowl but it really got tight in there after the third or fourth ground wire so now I have them spread out to one door hinge or another. I have replaced the tubing holding the wires to the wiper motor twice so the tubing you see in the picture is 3/8" brake/fuel line bent into an "L" around the corner of the left side of the windshield. Usually I get things right on the third try! Earlier versions were painted silver but this time I just left the galvanized surface of the tubing alone and it blends in with the windshield frame pretty well but I do not know if it will rust. In order to get the three wires through it I coated the wires with Vaseline and with a little patience shoved them through the tubing. Unfortunately for maintenance the wires will have to be cut because the connectors will not slide through the tubing so I hope it is good enough to stay there. If I get rust on the tubing, I figure I can release the mounts, put a lot of shielding paper around it and then spray it in place rather than cut the wires OR maybe it would be easy to just cut the wires under the dash? Let me hope the galvanized surface on the tubing will stay shiny!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

I want to keep this thread going since it is my main connection to sanity for the wiring project. Although I got sidetracked with the top bows recently, I did learn a new trick for the grounding when I messed with the wiring for the wiper motor. It turns out the Bebops body has 1" square tubing framework inside the 'glass shell and the doors are hung from a substantial metal plate that runs up the front of the door wells welded to the tubing frame so I have found that I can use the bolts on the door hinges for grounding posts which are hidden inside which makes for shorter ground wires. The 1" square tubing is grounded to the frame and the negative post of the battery with 00 size welding cable at the base of the cowl. At first I tried using a common stud for all the ground wires inside the cowl but it really got tight in there after the third or fourth ground wire so now I have them spread out to one door hinge or another. I have replaced the tubing holding the wires to the wiper motor twice so the tubing you see in the picture is 3/8" brake/fuel line bent into an "L" around the corner of the left side of the windshield. Usually I get things right on the third try! Earlier versions were painted silver but this time I just left the galvanized surface of the tubing alone and it blends in with the windshield frame pretty well but I do not know if it will rust. In order to get the three wires through it I coated the wires with Vaseline and with a little patience shoved them through the tubing. Unfortunately for maintenance the wires will have to be cut because the connectors will not slide through the tubing so I hope it is good enough to stay there. If I get rust on the tubing, I figure I can release the mounts, put a lot of shielding paper around it and then spray it in place rather than cut the wires OR maybe it would be easy to just cut the wires under the dash? Let me hope the galvanized surface on the tubing will stay shiny!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Hi Don,
I saw your other post about the top - and when we have a more stable wifi connection I'll respond more (we're at a campground at Lake Champlain, the "6th Great Lake).

Generally I use brake tubing for exactly the same thing you are but what I do is polish it up with 0000 steel wool then spray with clear rattle can paint. It will yellow slightly (one brand of clear that I used) but not enough to even see unless you compare to a newly painted piece.

This really is a comment about wiring. I decided to "just do it" but every time I "do it" I get into trouble. It started by running the 12 gauge wire (in the red shield) from the 100 amp one-wire alternator to the positive battery connection (00 gauge welder cable) at the starter, then a call to "Rick" at It's-A-Snap told me that I need a 14 gauge wire from the battery at the starter to the larger gauge wire marked "main power" as a "fusable link" to the dashboard gauges. OK, but in putting the three connectors on the same stud I stripped the threads on the stud and so had to purchase a replacement solenoid. OK so if it is so much trouble to change a solenoid I don't want to do it often! I tried three solenoid shields from Summit, NAPA and an aluminized insulating bag which were not satisfactory for one reason or another. Finally I tried a double shield from Speedway, but the installation was tricky to say the least. Most of the folks here are experienced mechanics but I had to use every trick I ever knew to install this little aluminum shield. At one point I taped a mounting screw to the end of a long screwdriver to insert it into a blind mounting hole in the solenoid and the sequence of getting the wires on the stud relative to mounting the starter and unbolting the headpipe to allow room took me 2 1/2 days and I said a bad word only twice as I recall but now "heat shield" is a new VERY bad explicative for me! The shield I finally got in there along with the wires is a double layer of polished aluminum (nice) on the outside with a stainless steel layer separated by about 1/32" of an air gap. Here is a picture. I hope the solenoid holds up because I don't want to do that installation often!

Best Wishes,
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder