Thread: Rearend links- 4 link, 3 link, parellel, angled???

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While I have to agree that a Watts would work better on a car that had a lot of rear end vertical travel, with the couple of inches that the typical hot rod moves up and down a panhard doesn't have much of a chance of "arcing" the rear end from side to side. I would bet if you measured the sideward movement caused by the panhard during that couple of inches of up and down travel it would amount to maybe 1/8 of an inch.

Look at how many rods are running panhards, many coming from well known chassis builders. Then name how many Watts setups you see.

Don

Originally Posted by techinspector1

Go to your room.

It's been one of those days.

Originally Posted by pro70z28

Watts that?

Sorry I just had to say it.....

Draw him a picture Techinspector.

Thanks for all those drawings, but could you make the links blue instead of red? I want to see how that would look.

Originally Posted by maddddog

Draw him a picture Techinspector.

Thanks for all those drawings, but could you make the links blue instead of red? I want to see how that would look.

Yeah dog, I'll get right on that....

Originally Posted by pro70z28

Watts that?

Sorry I just had to say it.....

Somebody had to do it~!!!!!

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

While I have to agree that a Watts would work better on a car that had a lot of rear end vertical travel, with the couple of inches that the typical hot rod moves up and down a panhard doesn't have much of a chance of "arcing" the rear end from side to side. I would bet if you measured the sideward movement caused by the panhard during that couple of inches of up and down travel it would amount to maybe 1/8 of an inch.

Look at how many rods are running panhards, many coming from well known chassis builders. Then name how many Watts setups you see.

Don

Don, I know many chassis builders are using them, but does that make it right? I don't think so. It just makes it cheap and expedient. If the Panhard moved the diff laterally even 0.001", it's still in conflict with the main suspension components that are moving on a different arc. What's wrong with the Satchell Link arrangement I drew? If you're gonna make four links to bolt on the car anyway, what's wrong with angling two of them and not having to fit anything else to control lateral diff movement?

Granted Don, it may not be much, but the panhard bar does mess up the handling.... When you're really cranking it into a curve and the back end goes over a bump it will push the car considerably...

I've also been amazed at the IFS guys who will spend hours getting the front end geometry just right--then just hook up a panhard bar on the back because it's the generally accepted method of doing it....

As for naming some cars with Watts linkage......well, mine... Perhaps I'm not a pro shop, or even a shop anymore far as that goes but nevertheless, right is right and as long as there are curves and corners with bumps in them, a panhard bar will never be the correct method of controlling lateral movement of the rear end housing.....

On the rare occasions that I actually keep something I build long enough to actually get it completed, I'm not going to let something like a panhard bar instead of Watts linkage screw up the handling that I spent so many hours and $$$$$ getting correct on the front of the car... Maybe I just drive mine a bit harder then most or I'm just to particular about how the suspension works.... If a builder is not going to comprimise anything on the front suspension, why ignore the rear suspension????

That was some good info to know. I was wondering cause I have very minimal experience with chasis setup, and my camaros have panhard bars. Think I may go to a 4 link setup when I get the money.

Speaking of triangulated 4 links (read as in Mustangs) and panard bars ( si in Camaro) we have actually put some panard bars on Mustangs for the autocross racers----they actually take a lot of that sideways movement out of the four link bars---and yes, I know that they are now 5 bars----

Jerry, I think we have reached a point of equalibrium. You and Don use 'em all you want. Dave and I won't use 'em at all.

I don't use them on anything I have personally

But we have installed some on a couple of national championship autocrossers---they are limited to lots of specs and the panard bar actually helps with the stock bushings in the ford bars

Personally, I like a solid rear end as in dragster or funny cars

Originally Posted by techinspector1

Jerry, I think we have reached a point of equalibrium. You and Don use 'em all you want. Dave and I won't use 'em at all.

So, If I havnt made up my mind yet, shouldht you guys be sending lobyists to my shop to first, fabricate and install the panhard and then the watts so I could break the tie once and for all?

the wAY the ground shakes out there you'll need all you can get under it

I had to take a couple days off but I am back on it now.
I went back and read the last couple pages and looked at all the pretty pictures again (thanks Techinspector)

I'm getting it. (thanks all)

One last question remains (yeah, right, Just one!)

Techinspector, you have allready answered it but I think there has to be more to it.
How do you determine the locations of the series of holes for the upper and lower bar on the rearend?
Techinspector, you have some radical suggestions in some of your drawings. Why do I usually see them slightly in front of the rearend tube, with the bottom series of holes slightly more forward than the upper holes?

There must be some reason for this. (On the other hand, I do like to make things more complicated than they need to be at times )

[QUOTE=techinspector1]Just playin' around here because I love to do this sort of thing. I'm working on my desk with a ruler at 1/8 scale. If any of you other guys like doing drafting/drawing, a dandy board can be had for cheap. Go to one of the home improvement outlets and buy a door. Cover it with a smooth, thin sheet of linoleum and make a down and dirty stand for it from some inexpensive 1 1/2 X 1 1/2 lumber. Makes a dandy board and you can easily draft out 1/2 scale automotive projects. T-squares and such can be bought pretty cheaply from drafting supply outlets. Drafting 1/2 scale and dividing the lines with the sharp points on your 6" dial caliper can get you pretty darned close. When done with your drawing, multiply times 2 and you have the dimensions for the actual parts.

QUOTE]


I had to go back and search for this one Richard.... Got to thinking about it today when the dog and I stopped for a coffee break out in the shop.... I'm going to do this for the Bronco II... Reason being the short wheelbase---any errors in my calculations or the geometry on a short (95") wheelbase could result in an ill-handling 'lil truck and some guardrail to guardrail excitement!!!!

Anyway, thanks for the most excellent idea Richard.... Maybe it will help this nearsighted old man avoid a few miscalculations!!!!!

U-DA-MAN!!!!!