Thread: 500 Caddy/G Body Swap

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I appreciate your input and believe it or not I had thought about those options (the fuel pump currently on the engine only has the 2 lines but I am aware of the later 3 line pumps).

The reason I went this route is primarily how the fuel lines have to be routed PAST the fuel pump. The areas that the fuel line will be routed thru is probably the closest to heat sources it will likely encounter in its journey from the fuel tank. The fuel line comes up past the water pump, around the back of the AC compressor and across the intake manifold (although it will be raised somewhat by the 1" spacer). Especially when the engine is shut off for a bit after it’s been run for several miles the line past the pump becomes a nice heat sink. Pulling the bypass fuel from the front fuel inlet should keep it cooler (and in a liquid state) all the way to the carb.

Keep in mind what I’m up against out here too. On a hot day when the truck has been sitting in the sun the temp of the fuel leaving the tank can already close to 100 degrees. Once it hits the engine compartment the under hood temps are going to be considerably higher especially if the AC is running and the engine is under any kind of a load. Then there is the low quality of the fuel compounded by a 4500 ft altitude. What I am doing is likely overkill for many areas of the country, but out here it beats sitting along side the road waiting for things to cool down or not being able to get it started in a parking lot somewhere. This is one area that I am definitely putting function over form on.

After the posts by Dave yesterday I got to thinking about ethanol compatibility especially if (actually more likely WHEN) they raise the allowable limits of ethanol. As I said I’m not planning on doing an E85 setup anytime soon, but figured that I’d look up what would be required on the fuel system so I could start building with that in mind when I put my projects together.

I came across a couple of interesting compatibility charts I figured I’d go ahead and post:

Metal Compatibility with E-85

Compatible

Stainless Steel
Unplated Steel
Black Iron
Bronze
Nickel Plate

Non Compatible

Zinc
Brass
Lead (& lead alloys)
Aluminum
Terne Plate
Copper

Non-Metals – Compatibilitywith E-85

Compatible

Teflon
Nitrile
Viton
Polypropylene
Buna-N
Thermo Plastic Pipe
Thermoset Reinforced Fiberglass


Non – Compatible

Natural Rubber
Cork

Leather
Polyurethane
PVG
Neoprene Rubber
Some Plastics/Thermo Set Plastics




My thoughts are this is going to be a pump gas motor and at the current Ethanol level of 10% I should be ok, even with the brass fittings for the fuel bypass. The problem is I can foresee a gradual increase in the levels in the future, and at this point who knows what level it will settle at or what the effects at 15/20 or even 25% are going to be. Just to be safe, I’ll probably redo the bypass to stainless steel and pull the sock off the in tank fuel pickup. I’m already running compatible rubber and steel fuel lines. Hopefully the as the ethanol levels go up the fuel pump diaphragms, tips on the carb needle and aftermarket electric fuel pumps will still be compatible.

Any other suggestions?

Good issure to look at Mike!!! We had to re-learn fuel systems once we went with the E-85 and E-90 fuels. We've had 10% ethanol around here for 20+ years and I run it in everything that is still on gas.... The fuel problems I've had have all been from gunk in the fuel and not the 10% ethanol.....

BTW, the old shop truck has been on E-85 for about 8 years now, still runs great!!!!! Price difference from E-85 to regular gas has been as much as $1.00, usually the ethanol is about .40 less.... Does make a considerable difference if it's something you plan on putting a lot of miles on.....

There hasn’t been a lot going on with my project, I’m still waiting to get a good title on it (the state seems to be taking a bit longer than usual on this one). I’ve been doing some little stuff and collecting some more parts, but that’s about it

Looking over the 500/G Body swaps I’ve come across, most indicate there is an issue with the front sump and drain plug sit directly above the crossmember. Depending on the builder, some of have the engine sitting to low to access the drain plug and have eliminated the front sump, others are high enough to get to the plug but it then drains directly onto the crossmember and some had cut and welded a channel into the axel relief between the 2 sumps. I had a spare Eldo pan laying around so I decided to see if I could use some heat, a length of pipe and a big hammer to make a drain trough. I think it worked out pretty well.

I normally leave the exhaust until much later in the project and up until the last couple of years would usually sent it to a muffler shop. As some of the local shops have closed or changed hands the quality of the remaining shops has gone down and the prices up, so lately I have been building my own systems or buying pre-bent pipes when they are available. I came across what I thought was a pretty good deal on a pair of 2 1/2 “ G Body tail pipes. After reading some discussion and seeing pictures of the fit of the Pypes X Pipe for the G Bodies, I went ahead and picked up one of those also. I will actually need the X pipe for mockup so I know where to put the exhaust reliefs in the crossmember I’ll be building. Depending on clearance issues I may have to include some ball and socket joints in it to allow it to be dropped out for drive shaft removal, but we’ll see when I get to that point.

Finally, I did get new fuel lines from the pump to the carb built along with a return line built. The final bending on the return will be done when I get it in the car and see how it matches up with line mounted on the frame.

Looks like it should work fine, Mike! I still do all the exhaust stock stuff at the muffler shop, but I much prefer doing my own on Hot Rods.... There are a huge number of suppliers for mandrel bet tubing, everything from plain steel to 404 stainless....Prices have really come down the last few years, must be the competition???

"....Prices have really come down the last few years, must be the competition???...."

I don't know Dave could be. A few months ago when I built the wife's El Camino the only tail pipes I cold find at that time were Walkers and only in 2 1/4" admittedly they came with the SS Monte Carlo Stainless tips but they were a lot more expensive than the 2 ½ Flow Master Tailpipes (and the bends in the Flow Masters are a bit nicer).

The X Pipe is stainless and also appears to be of good quality. All together I’ll have in it about what I’d pay a muffler shop to do and won’t have to re do it like the last 2 systems I had built.

Now if I could figure out what to do for mufflers, I want something “fairly” quiet that will flow the 500 to around 4500 RPM and I don’t care for Flow Master Mufflers……any suggestions?????

I don't know Mike...depends on the sound you want... I use the turbo's that Summit sells, they offer some in stainless and plain steel.... Put a few sets on, I like them... The Flowmasters and others are just a bit too loud for me....think you have to pay a bit much for the name, too......

We played with exhaust systems and mufflers on the chassis dyno a few years back...With a quality freeflowing system and just switching from name brand mufflers to a turbo that my buddy sells in his exhaust shop we couldn't find enough extra power to justify the huge price difference....Especially on the street...the most significant gains with a 501" Ford were from 4500rpm up....hmmmmmm. A bit different from what the manufacturer's claim, but as always, "your results may vary"........

The title finally came in for the El Camino so now the fun begins. After I got it in the shop yesterday I got the front end off and the motor that was in it ready to pull. I knew the engine was a 305 that someone had done a Krylon overhaul on but never really looked at it too closely. It turns out it is a later roller motor with the center bolt heads (87 up?) and of course does have the serpentine belt set up. I suspect I’ll eventually find someone who needs a builder or wants the belt setup and sell it down the road.

The front suspension has new upper control arm bushings and upper ball joints but the lower ball joints, lower bushings, tie rod ends, pitman arm and draglink still look to be original and probably worn out, so I’ll that to the list of things to do.

I’m tackling the Monte Carlo front sheetmetal swap part of the project first. Although it’s tempting to go ahead and set the caddy motor in while the front end is apart I want to know that my clearances on the inner fenders and radiator are going to be as I install the motor.

I started on the doors today and they fit the holes pretty well. I do have the body line issues I knew I was going to run into. I need to raise the rear of the drivers door a bit but the door gap seems like it’s going to be good.

The upper body line on the El Camino below the quarter window will need to the softened a bit to match the more rounded curve of the Monte door.

The lower body line between the door and front of the rear tire will need to be moved down to match the door line and the body line behind the rear tire will be removed.

The doors work smoothly (between the 2 cars I was able to come up with a tight set of door hinges) and I’ll spend a little time this week adjusting them just a bit more. Although I don’t think it’s going to be an issue I want to get at least one El Camino door glass changed over to insure there won’t be a fit problem there.

So far nothing looks like it’s going to be a show stopper on the sheetmetal swap. A friend is coming over hopefully next weekend and will try to get the front clip on and I’ll see where we stand from there.

Gonna be kewl Mike!!! A bit of a line change on the door and presto changeo!!! instant kustom... Worst part is, few people will even notice, and half of the one's who do will insist it's stock!!!!!!

“…. Worst part is, few people will even notice, and half of the one's who do will insist it's stock!!!!!!....”

You're probably right Dave, but isn’t one of the tricks to make it look like it could have/should have come that way.

It’s one of the reasons I’m really looking forward to seeing you’re Ranchero done.

Exactly why I do it Mike!!!!! When it's all done and sitting in the pits or cruising down the street and somebody has to ask if it's chopped or what did you change, then you know you did it right!!!!!

Got to get the pickup sold and the 'maro at least sitting on all four, then it's on to the Ranchero.... Already have a few potential buyers on the 'maro...don't think it will be too tough to peddle....

Anyway, very interesting to watch the Elky go together!!! Doing anything out of the norm and exercising a bit different approach always interests me. As I remember it, this is how things were done "back in the day" not some of these atrocities showing up the last few years....

Well I got the front clip hung. It wasn;t exactly a bolt on but not overly complicated either.


It turns out the end of the frame rails are about 2 3/4" longer on the Monte Carlo than they are on the El Camino. After looking at some options I decided to just cut off the appropriate length of frame horn from the donor car.

The Monte also uses some additional bracing that neither one of my El Caminos has. There are a pair of diagonal cross braces that run from the center of the crossmember to the outer ends of the frame rail (the holes for mounting these are already there).

There is also a brace that runs from the forward mounting point of the diagonal brace to the lower hole of the bumper mount. These are actually what I used to help insure the extension was the correct length.

Once the frame horns were extended it as just a simple matter of bolting the Monte Carlo clip in and adjusting gaps (something I’m still do a little adjustment with).