Thread: Coolant in cylinders; fresh 400 sbc build

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Originally Posted by rspears

Excellent post explaining squish and the relationships between the pieces, Tech. I really enjoy reading and learning more about these things from your experience base, and you're a good writer.
The one thing that jumped out at me is the gasket thickness - it seems that you could pick up ten to fifteen thousandths by using a thinner gasket, getting you down into the .055 to .060 range. Pat, you mentioned a long board and some 80 grit. Would it be possible to keep things flat and take off another .010 to .015 with elbow grease? Too much risk of getting it crooked? Just wondering after reading both yours and Tech's posts. May not be worth the risk for a basic stock rebuild where the decision has been made that the lower end is not being touched (no new pistons).

I agree Tech. This is very valuable info, but it just doesn't seem so for this build. I have another project after this one that I will use this teaching on because it WILL have flat top pistons (I already have them) and a pretty large cam that I have also. It will be a 350 using my 305 heads and will go in my daily driven S10. In this thread I needed to now why I was getting coolant in the cylinders of my 400sbc which I have figured out and I now know that I need another set of heads that will work

Here's a thought of an idea, (please bare with me on this), What if I did put the 305 heads on the 400, achieved the high compression, and run it on E85 fuel? I know that I would have to at least everything rubber in the fuel system, but I also know that E85 loves high compression and that the alcohol would help keep the cylinder cool. (just a thought to keep from having to buy new heads that I can't afford)

By the way, my carb is a Quadra-junk. I know they make carbs for this such as the Quickflow but was wondering if this setup will work if I can find a rebuild kit to allow E85 to work in the "junk"

Originally Posted by rspears

Excellent post explaining squish and the relationships between the pieces, Tech. I really enjoy reading and learning more about these things from your experience base, and you're a good writer.
The one thing that jumped out at me is the gasket thickness - it seems that you could pick up ten to fifteen thousandths by using a thinner gasket, getting you down into the .055 to .060 range. Pat, you mentioned a long board and some 80 grit. Would it be possible to keep things flat and take off another .010 to .015 with elbow grease? Too much risk of getting it crooked? Just wondering after reading both yours and Tech's posts. May not be worth the risk for a basic stock rebuild where the decision has been made that the lower end is not being touched (no new pistons).

no you will never get 008 or .015 off a deck with 80 grit paper your arms will fall off before that will happen. i leave a sleeve up about .003 up and flat file it to the old deck if not milling the deck that the only time i file a deck. as for head gasket cometic 027 with steam holes c5877-027

Originally Posted by Bigbzc

Here's a thought of an idea, (please bare with me on this), What if I did put the 305 heads on the 400, achieved the high compression, and run it on E85 fuel? I know that I would have to at least everything rubber in the fuel system, but I also know that E85 loves high compression and that the alcohol would help keep the cylinder cool. (just a thought to keep from having to buy new heads that I can't afford)

I think I remember researching this for another member here and found that you could run up to 15.0:1 on E85 if you built the clearances correctly.

Originally Posted by Bigbzc

By the way, my carb is a Quadra-junk. I know they make carbs for this such as the Quickflow but was wondering if this setup will work if I can find a rebuild kit to allow E85 to work in the "junk"

In my experience, the only people who call a Quadrajet a Quadrajunk are those who don't understand them and won't take the time to learn. My opinion is that aside from Webers and Dellortos, the Quadrajet is probably the finest fuel mixing apparatus ever conceived. Contact Cliff Ruggles to see if there are alcohol-compatible parts for it....
Cliffs High Performance Quadrajets :: Qjet Carburetor Rebuild Kits, Parts, Quadrajet Rebuilding, Quadrajet Parts, Bushing Kits, Carb Tuning

Originally Posted by Bigbzc

Well, as I have said over and over, that the bottom end including the pistons is stock and that is the way I plan to leave it. This means that the pistons are dished, just the way they come from the factory. Now your telling me that this will not work which is why I'm getting confused on what you are asking of me. I do not plan on racing this engine and am not seeking 500 hp out of it. At most, it will be used to tow my rock crawler.

I don't make any money from spending my time on here trying to help you, it is a labor of love because I appreciate anything that turns money into noise (Thanks Uncle Bob). It is my feeling that I would fail if I did not try to help you arrive at a motor that will operate well on pump gas without detonation and what I see is that if the squish is as wide as you have indicated, the motor will likely rattle on pump gas. I'm fairly sure that you are learning things that you have never considered and that's why you are taken aback and getting a little bristly. I didn't know what a manifold was when I was 13 and many of the rest of us knew nothing to begin with. Life is a learning experience. Lean back, take a breath and weigh your options.

Originally Posted by techinspector1

In my experience, the only people who call a Quadrajet a Quadrajunk are those who don't understand them and won't take the time to learn. My opinion is that aside from Webers and Dellortos, the Quadrajet is probably the finest fuel mixing apparatus ever conceived. Contact Cliff Ruggles to see if there are alcohol-compatible parts for it....
Cliffs High Performance Quadrajets :: Qjet Carburetor Rebuild Kits, Parts, Quadrajet Rebuilding, Quadrajet Parts, Bushing Kits, Carb Tuning

So do you think I can achieve this if I build the carb and use the 305 heads? I haven't read your link on the Quadrajet E85 yet but I will when I get a chance to really take it in. On a side note, the Quad is about the only carb I have ever had experience with and HAVE been pretty fond of it. I only used the "Quadrajunk" reference because I figured you were like the other Holley fans who have called it that. Yes it is a good carb and once you get it tuned, you really never have to adjust it much as you do a Holley. A guy I worked with a long time ago had one on him Monty and had to adjust it once a week to keep it running good on pump gas. It was also pretty high compression.

Ok, I sent Cliff an inquiry about E85 rebuild kit for the Quad. I also read in his forum that a few people are run it with his rebuild kits and are not having any problems. Thank Tech for that link. So I guess the question left is do you think this might work? The only thing that bothers me about the idea is that I would be using 30% more fuel and that I would only get 5 mpg when towing my 4x4. It probably weighs between 5 and 6K lbs on the trailer. I think it might be cheaper to just try to find some 350 heads that haven't been machined for a couple hundred (or find someone who wants mine. They would be killer on a 350 with flat top pistons)

I think you're gonna have more money involved trying to go to alcohol than you might think. If it were my motor, I'd disassemble it and start over with a solid plan to run it on junk pump gas (9.0:1 with a 0.040" squish and a short hydraulic roller cam. RPM intake, 600 carb and 1 3/4" long-tube headers).
Howards, Camshaft & Lifter Kit, Chev SB, Hydraulic Roller,-Competition Products
After reading some of your responses, I doubt that you'll have any interest in this approach, but there are others who are reading this thread and I just wanted to publish my thoughts on the way I'd do it based on what you say you want the motor to do.

By the time you are through farting around with this thing, you're going to have enough money, time and effort in it to have done what Tech said; or, you could just settle down, and if your short block is stock as you say, get a performance package from Edelbrock, or Summit, with the correct heads and all the nice extras, bolt it on and be money ahead in the long run. Or, you can just keep spinning your wheels and running around in circles, and wind up unhappy in the end.

Brent, you may delete this if you wish; I just had to get it off my chest.

[QUOTE=Rrumbler;426621]By the time you are through farting around with this thing, you're going to have enough money, time and effort in it to have done what Tech said; or, you could just settle down, and if your short block is stock as you say, get a performance package from Edelbrock, or Summit, with the correct heads and all the nice extras, bolt it on and be money ahead in the long run. Or, you can just keep spinning your wheels and running around in circles, and wind up unhappy in the end.


Excuse me for being idealistic. I will just find some cheap heads that can be reworked and get this thing together. That was what this thread was suppose to be about in the beginning. Hoping maybe I might even find someone who will trade some unworked heads for mine

i machine parts and build engines all the time every day. on a set of old small block heads with all new stock parts .valve intake and ex .springs. seals . guids . ex seats . hp valve job . mill .and boil out and mag its not hard to get to $500.

Originally Posted by Bigbzc

Excuse me for being idealistic. I will just find some cheap heads that can be reworked and get this thing together. That was what this thread was suppose to be about in the beginning. Hoping maybe I might even find someone who will trade some unworked heads for mine

Bigbzc,
No one is going to criticize being idealistic, but you're being challenged to be realistic in your build vs just spending money and being unhappy with the results. Tech has spent quite a bit of time going into a lot of detail about how you can build for your situation and not destroy the engine via detonation. The days of old are gone - fuel is crappy, oil is crappy, and everything costs arms & legs. Pat's pointing out that you're going to spend quite a bit of good money bringing used stuff up to snuff if you choose to go that way.
Tech's last post very clearly says "If it were my engine...." No one is telling you what to do here, but you've got a combined wealth of experienced guys (not me....) who are trying to not only give you good advice, but lead others that are following this thread down a path that leads to smiles not frowns. Good luck on your build, whichever way you choose to go.

In the late 80's I pulled a stock 400 out of a 72 Caprice Estate wagon, replaced the rear main seal, stuck in an old 30/30 Isky solid lifter cam, an Offy 360 intake with a 650 Holley DP, a set of Hedman headers, a 454 flywheel, and had a shop in town build me a 3100# pressure plate and the best clutch disc they sold and stuffed in a 62 1/2 ton Chevy truck. It ran on 87 pump gas and it wasn't the baddest thing in town, but I did surprise a few folks. Don't try to reinvent the wheel.