Thread: What do you engine guys see here?

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Those ring filers are pretty slick. Found the KD one mentioned above here for around 58 bucks, hope this helps.
Save on KD Tools 870 at ToolTopia.com

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Thanks Bob. Roger sent me a PM too, telling me how to find previous posts. Once you guys explained how it was pretty simple.

Pat, thanks for that info on the rings. Is it preferable to buy the ones you have to file to fit over the ones that you don't? I think I will buy a ring filer and do them with that. I saw them using one on one of the car shows on TV and it didn't look super expensive, but it was better than using a hand file.

Today when Dan gets off work we are meeting the guy who is selling the bare 455 block. Sure hope it looks good and if it does I'll drop it off at the machine shop tomorrow.

Don

you should not just think a set of drop in rings have the right end gap .many times they do not...... but its better to file off 002 to 004 set of drop in rings them to buy file fit rings . you need to check end gap.... ring tools are not much money for many years i used hose clamps and clamp a file sicking off one of the arms off a engine stand and file many many sets this way.... .i use a adjustable square set it at one inch then check ring in the wall in 3 spots then check your end gap i use a fine stone to break all sharp spots off the ring after filing them .if you fail to do this you will phuck up the cylinder walls

Pat, when we get to the point of installing rings I'll be back with more questions for you guys.

Thanks,


Don

Looks to me like one of the ring lips on the piston could have broken off also.

I've been wondering if that is what we are going to find also.



Don

a ring land could of busted . i never look at your piston numbers.. but pistons tops and ring lands do bust out from piston rings with no end gap . hyper pistons will bust the land out as most need more end gap. i got in to checking all my ring gaps many years ago so i knew all the rings were the right size for bore like a 040 over in a 030 ring box seen rings mixup missing and chiped and bent in new ring box it happens .i never assume any new parts are right or they fit .some guys think its all new and fresh machined just bolt it up ? i know many storys of stuff not fitting i sure jerry know s some to .. of stuff not fitting or a guy not checking a parts for fit .the one you do not check is the one that bite you in the ass .

Pat, here is what Sealed Power quotes about these pistons:

Forged Piston 0.142 Dish, 4.125 Bore, 4.250 Stroke, 6.735 Rod, 455 Oldsmobile
$53.99Part Number: L2323F
SKU: L2323F
Brand: Sealed Power
Price: $53.99
TRW Power Forged pistons have become the standard by which pistons

are compared. The complete piston manufacturing proceess, from the

raw materials to the finished product is directly handled by TRW.

From OE type replacement to all out racing motors, Power Forged

pistons provide the same dependable performance experienced by

winners of countless races every week! *Compression ratio is

figured with 70.0cc heads.




Forged Piston 0.142 Dish, 4.125 Bore, 4.250 Stroke, 6.735 Rod, 455 Oldsmobile (L2323F) Specifications
Forged Piston 0.142 Dish, 4.125 Bore, 4.250 Stroke, 6.735 Rod, 455 Oldsmobile (L2323F) Specifications
Bore Diameter (in.): 4.125
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Dish / Dome Volume (cc): -18
Pin Height (in.): 1.735
Ring Package: 5/64 5/64 3/16
Rod Length (in.): 6.735
Stroke (in.): 4.250
Weight (grams): 672
Wrist Pin Type: Pressed


Don

well don long as you know that new pistons can be smaller then were they should be see it all the time .so lets say he put the piston in at.0025 or less piston to wall if you have a smaller piston by .001 and that piston he fit it to the bore it could be .003 les on end gap . so you could at or less then .014 for end gap thats way to small for a top ring heat makes them grow

I would tear it apart before anything else to see what happened. I've used plasma ceramic rings with good success.

Every set of pistons I ever used when checked would be around +/- .002" varience in diameter. For example a set of 4" pistons lets say +.030 over would actually measure in a set of eight from 4.029" to 4.031". Sometimes the varience in diameter was more. Too much more and we would order other pistons and send back the ones too far out of spec. Basically make up our own set of pistons within .002" tolerance. This is why we used to bore the block to fit the pistons and file fit the rings to get the correct gap.

Heres a chart from Sealed Power / Speed Pro giving reccomended end gaps per application.

RING END GAP RECOMMENDATION GUIDE (FOR 4.000 INCH BORE)
Speed Pro Top Rings
(ductile iron, 4" bore) 4.000" Example Minimum Gap Factor
Moderate Performance .016 - .018 (.004 per inch of bore diameter)
Drag Racing, Oval Track .018 - .020 (.0045 per inch of bore diameter)
Nitrous Oxide - Street .020 - .022 (.005 per inch of bore diameter)
Nitrous Oxide - Drag .028 - .030 (.007 per inch of bore diameter)
Supercharged .024 - .026 (.006 per inch of bore diameter)

Speed Pro 2nd Rings
(cast Iron, 4" bore) 4.000" Example Minimum Gap Factor
Moderate Performance .020 - .022 (.005 per inch of bore diameter)
Drag Racing, Oval Track .022 - .024 (.0055 per inch of bore diameter)
Nitrous Oxide - Street .024 - .026 (.006 per inch of bore diameter)
Nitrous Oxide - Drag .028 - .030 (.007 per inch of bore diameter)
Supercharged .024 - .026 (.006 per inch of bore diameter)

Notice: Most of the second ring gap recommendations are larger than the top rings. Recent testing has proven that a
larger second gap increases the top ring's ability to seal combustion. This larger "escape" path prevents inter-ring
pressure from building up and lifting the top ring off the piston allowing combustion to get by. Many engine builders
have reported lower blow-by and horsepower gains at the upper RPM ranges with wider second ring gaps. Also,
almost every new car made is using this inter-ring pressure reduction method to lower blow-by and emissions and to
increase engine output

If EVERY set of pistons you have used vary that much I got a few tips for you---

Get a better measuring tool-----
Get someone else to measure them---
buy a different brand of pistons---

I doubt that the 4.030 pistons measured anywhere near 4.029-4.031(maybe 4.025---)

Don

If all the oil was coming from the manifold surface there would be a trail around the valve stem/guide area---that looks like the oil came directly out the guide

Before I would go to all the work of a different block, I would see what/how much size it takes to clean up that area----sometimes a little detonation will knock off the ring land of the piston and they scrape like that--you can probably see pass the top edge and get an idea of what happened--rock the piston over a little with a screwdriver blade for a better look

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

If EVERY set of pistons you have used vary that much I got a few tips for you---

Get a better measuring tool-----
Get someone else to measure them---
buy a different brand of pistons---

I doubt that the 4.030 pistons measured anywhere near 4.029-4.031(maybe 4.025---)

Ooops! I stand corrected. My example was bad. Cylinder bore may have been within that range but forgot about piston to cylinder wall clearance and true diameter of piston.

Don i've used one of these Speedway type for years without any problems.

This one works good, i also have the electric version.

Precision Piston Ring Filer - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop

Don I enjoy screwing my own engines together after the parts come back from the machine shop, and even though I trust the machine shop(s) I use I still check everything. It adds at least a couple of hours to the build but that's a lot less than pulling the engine back out and re-doing it. I doesn't happen everytime, but it's not unusual for me to find at least 1 ring in a set that is a little tight.