Thread: Anyone used molasses to derust??

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yep thats the stuff i have evaporust had a old 396/375 hp this was before my hot tank . even with a hot load in the tank it would of not help much .it was very bad. i stuck the block in two HD garbage bags tape around the bag s put a drip pan under the block then fill the block up with evaporust . it did not do what i needed it to do the block ended up getting shot blasted it was very bad with a lot of pits fresh deck and bore clean it up good. but the block was getting bad.it was setting on the timming cover side down in a old shop with a bad roof pitted up the front face and rusted off the timming cover pins . i think you will fined that evaporust and your molasses mix is about the same .about 15 years ago i had some 454 block came out of a scrap yard we played around with some muratic acid you could get it to eat rust .but i ever could get it to stop rusting the block up .i have used metal prep that work ok on small spots

I have heard that it makes for a sweet running engine

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

No wonder I get an upset stomach from Coke ! I remember hearing years ago you could use it to clean rust off of bumpers, too.

I agree with the damage to machined surfaces not being caused by the molasses, but by the rust that was there already pitting the metal, and then once the rust was gone the pitting was evident.

I borrowed a product from my Son Don one time, called Evaporust, that he bought at Northern Tool. He used it and didn't like it, but I soaked some cowl lights in it that were really rusty and after an overnight soak they literally came out like brand new. It made the metal look like the day it was made and it left the painted parts intact. I think we might fill the cooling passages with that product and leave it overnight or so and see how that does. When Don used it I think he did a quick soak, so the secret seems to be overnight or more.

Today I called some feed stores in the area and found out what you need to buy is "liquid molasses". Two local stores sell it, but one wants to sell it in no less than 100 gallon quantities........they want $ 1.25 a gallon. The other store will sell it in quantities of 5 gallons or more, and get $ 1.49 a gallon (your container in both cases). I think what I will do is go pickup 20 gallons and one of those plastic livestock feeder tubs. Then I will soak the 350 Chevy engine block I have sitting around and see how it does on that one. If it doesn't damage that one I think it will give Dan the confidence to drop his Olds into the same mixture.

Never thought I would know so much about molasses !

Don

I also recently used some ZEP Rust Remover and was very happy with the results. I bought it at home depot about 10 dollars a gallon. I used it on HEAVILY rusted shocks for the mini bike I have. Left the parts soaking for 10 hours and they came out free of any rust. Bare metal and the chrome that was not rusted was the only thing on the metal. They came out CLEAN. I believe the stuff is biodegradable also.

I actually looked at that Zep stuff tonight when I was in Home Depot, but I bought a 54 gallon tub while I was there and @ $ 10 a gallon I figured it would be too expensive to fill it up with that one. So tomorrow I am going to drive to the feed store and pick up about 20 gallons of molasses and fill the tub up with it and water. I think I have convinced Dan that it won't eat his block away, and if there is any pitting it was there from the rusting itself.

I'll post some pictures of before, during, and after the block comes out of the mixture. That tub worked out to be the perfect size for the 455 block to drop down into.

Don

This is sure going to be one sweet engine when he's done!

Originally Posted by stovens

This is sure going to be one sweet engine when he's done!

Man, I sure and thinking pancakes.


I will be waiting for pics. I sure am interested in the results with molasses.

Looking forward to the results as well.
I've been thinking of trying this for awhile now.

Today I went to Home Depot and bought three 5 gallon paint buckets and lids and headed to the feed store. We don't have any around here that carry liquid molasses so I had to go clear out to LaBelle, about an hours drive. They sell it as llivestock feed and have about a 15,000 gallon tank of the stuff. It was not as I envisioned, I somehow thought it would have berrys or lumps in it, but it is just THICK syrup, alot like 140 wt gear lube, but it smells very sweet........overpoweringly sweet. While we were filling the buckets we had to keep shooing the bees and flys away.

On the way home I passed the machine shop I was at first considering using so I stopped in to have a talk with the owner. I told him the problem we were having with oil blowby and burning and that we had a new block that we were going to derust and then maybe bring in to have machined. He asked why we were going to try to derust it ourselves and I told him because it seems the vats the machine shops use these days simply remove grease, but leave the rust. He took me inside and showed me some blocks that were as clean as the day they were made and said "these were as bad as that stack of rusty ones over there, my equipment DOES get them clean."

So we sat down and I started asking him questions, like how do you bore the engines. He said they bore them .003 short of the final hone then hone them to size. I asked him if he needed the pistons there to bore each hole and he said "I can't do it any other way !" I asked about line boring and he said he would check the straightness first with his equipment, but in most cases it isn't needed. He said he would deck the block and polish the crank in addition to cam bearings and freeze plugs.

Overall, I am pretty impressed with what I heard, and he did do a nice job of machining the pulleys for my Ford and machining Dans Buick brake drums to fit his Lincoln backing plates. He also had quite a few half done motors sitting there that looked good and were being assembled in a clean room. So, it looks like I have a huge tub and 15 gallons of molasses that I won't be needing right away. But I think I will either soak the 350 block or the flathead block I have in it just to see how it does.

What do you guys think about the boring/honing and other stuff he mentioned? Is that the right way to do it?

Don

Oh, and all this talk about molasses did give me a craving for pancakes, so I headed to McDonalds for their big breakfast this morning.

Add some butter to that and whew you got a winner! It's funny to hear of these old school processes, that I'm willing to bet work pretty darn good. Just hate to think of all the bacteria and smell that might come off that mollasis after it gets to fermenting. Sort of like stuff our grand parents did, that we blew off, but really worked well! Keep us updated to how this works! I have cofidence that whatever you guys do, will result in a nice end product.

So you guys put molasses on your pancakes? I've never tried that....up here it has to be real maple syrup. Then again, I'm up for trying anything different.....I'll have to give molasses a shot next time I have pancakes.

Sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
Did he mention bolting on deck plates for the honing process?

Originally Posted by 123pugsy

Sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
Did he mention bolting on deck plates for the honing process?

i can tell you any thing you want to know .if he is only leaving .003 in he may not... less he boring with deck plates on . on some engines i do bore them with deck plates on then hone the bores if you do not do it this way then i leave the bores .004to.005 under size deck plates can cost up to $600+ so less he is doing alot of one type of engine the cost is a big factor i use them on all chevy s and sbf and harleys and you should be no more bigger on tq plate then 100 over bore size

Here is a lower ranking view point from what you have said---IF HE LEAVES .003 when boring, he probably uses a drill driven hand held hone to finish the bore----Does he have a Sunnen CK10?????

IF HE CHECKS THE ALIGN BORE with the equipment he has AND says it generally doesn't need it----He doesn't have equipment for align honing---the words from him are the words generally said by machine shop persons would would like to have this equipment but don't--
As a older than me guy once said---there are those who have the equipment and there are the ones who say its not needed but wish they had it!!!!

And, please, I'm not saying he doesn't---

Blue Berry pancakes with molasses NOW you've got somthing GOOD

I'm pretty sure he won't have the deck plates. On the Olds 442 forum they say that most machine shops will not have Olds deck plates due to the low numbers they would do (compared to, lets say, a 350 Chevy) and the cost is prohibitive.

As for the line boring equipment, he does have that and, if needed, that would cost $ 150.00. I think he was just trying to be honest and not sell something we might not need. When he wrote down his prices for the various items he put a question mark next to the line boring and said he would know if it was needed when he checked the straightness. I liked that he did that because the other machine shop guys I have used in town always just went ahead and did the line boring automatically. Looks like this guy isn't trying to sell me something we might not need.

Another thing I liked about him was that he suggested putting hardened seats on the exhaust valves when we have the heads done. The other machine shop said it was too expensive and not needed on an engine you don't use as a daily driver. That concerned me as the cost he quoted really wasn't all that bad.........$ 10 per seat labor and $ 8- $ 10 for each seat. Works out to about $ 160 for the 8 exhaust valves. He also said he has no problem with us bringing in parts we buy elsewhere, like the Comp Cam valve spring kit. We want to get the kit Comp Cams recommends for the H280 cam in this motor, and I want to get Perfect Circle seals for the guides.

Here are some of the prices he is quoting, which I think are reasonable:

Clean block.........................$ 80

Line hone (if needed)............$ 150

Bore and hone block.............$ 144

Install cam brgs...................$ 35

Brass freeze plugs................$ 30

Deck (mill) block..................$ 100



All in all, not any more than we have paid elsewhere. Today I am going to take Dan out to meet him since it is his car and motor, and he can make the decision if we want to go here or take the drive to Sarasota instead.


Don