Thread: Professional engine builder tips.

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We've been learning a lot about the right way to put engines together from guys like Pat, Jerry, Richard, and many others. So, it would be helpful if you guys would tell us what brand products you like for specific applications, such as:

1) What brand assembly lube do you like for cams, lifters, and bearings?

2) What do you use to lube threads, like on main bolts and head bolts?

3) What sealants do you like for gaskets? Do you use different ones for different places on the block (i.e for the water pump, or for the intake gaskets, etc.)

4) What sealant do you like on threads that pass into a water jacket, such as head bolts or water pump bolts that go where water will be present?

5) Do you put your pistons in dry or lubed?

6) How about break in oil? Any additives such as cam break in lube or zinc additives that you recommend?

I know that is a lot of questions, but I think the rest of us could learn a lot from the experience of guys who do this day in and day out. Thanks for your help, guys.

Don

1cam lube most i do rollers but if flat moly. i use many assemble lubes.. some of it has to do with how long the engine is going to set . i use alot of ARP rod bolts and studs and SPS crower .bme .others.i use what they tell you to used if stock bolts oil under bolt head and sealer on threaded parts if a open deck block of head bolts if not open deck then oil not sealer oil or ARP lube under heads and nuts .washers...sealers many... RTV only on oil pans and intake side rails timming covers . teflon sealer on head bolts but lower the Tq on head bolts . any block freez plugs get loctie 620. oil s for break in a oil made to work not some mix and hope deal .so brad pen or joe gibs .on pistons .i clean pistons wall s with clean oil till i white paper towel is clean pistons some what dry .i wet the walls before i put the heads on .before i put oil pan on i give the piston pin a good shot of oil

Thanks, Pat. You mention the torque on head bolts when using sealer on some........lets say they call for 80 lbs torque, do you put more or less torque on the ones that have sealant on them?

Don

I agree 100% with Pat on the lubes/sealers and I would like to point out that a few things he said may go over your heads---

1---use the bolt/stud manufacture recommended lube and torque

2---don't mix oils/lubes---if you think your good enough for that go to work for a oil company---we like the gibbs/brad penn oils also

3----when cleaning cylinder walls for assembly---use clean lint free paper towels with a squirt of oil in a spot on it---wipe the cylinder wall until it STOPS picking up dull grey dark stuff and comes back clean--then your cylinder wall is clean enough for assembly

4---I oil the walls for assy by squirting a couple pumps of a oil can near the top and with 2 fingers go around the cylinder spreading the oil out---We don't oil the piston, but do oil the ring compressor ring---and after assy before installing the oil pan will also squirt the pin areas of piston rod and big end of rod clearance area.

5---drop of assy lube on pushrod ENDS, but don't fill the pushrod with assy lube as it will take forever to pump out and get oil to rockers

6---oil/assy lube cam/dist gear teeth

7---pre oil/ assy lube into oil pump rotors/gears

8---on install, fill oil filter

One thing I would add is if you are using aluminum heads (at least Edelbrock used to recommend that) the head bolts be re-torqued) after the cam break-in was done.

Personally in addition to the above I usually put a very small dab of silicone on the ends of the rear main seal and squirt a little oil on the wrist pin holes. I also put a dab of assembly lub on rocker arm ends and the pivot.

All good stuff -
One item, and it's only a question about installing pistons - I've always used a pan with my oil of choice, filled to about a depth of 1.5 inches, put the pistons on head first, soaked the rings and lands, then I've drooled more of the same oil on to the pin. I then let the assembly drip for a few minutes to clear off most of the oil. Beside being sloppy, is there anything wrong with this? And yes, on first start, it will blow some small amount of oil smoke, but not much.

Nothing wrong with your method, IC2. I do the same. I've built a lot of engines over the years. I soak everything with 30wt. Never had a problem.

Some very good info has been brought out here so far........thanks.

On the subject of assembly lubes, do you guys have a preference? I have some that are sort of like thick black graphite (almost like grease) in nature and some that are red, more like thick slippery oil. I have used some by the cam makers too, which I use to coat the journals, lobes, and bottom of the lifters. Any preferences there?

When sealant is used on some threads and lube on others (as in doing a cylinder head) does it change the amount of torque you apply to each? I guess what I am asking is, does the sealant change how the bolt reacts to torquing? Hope I am being clear on that one.

Don

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Thanks, Pat. You mention the torque on head bolts when using sealer on some........lets say they call for 80 lbs torque, do you put more or less torque on the ones that have sealant on them?

Don

if the head bolt will give you a 75 to 80 i would go lower on torque only if its a manley or gm bolt then 75 max if arp then tq them were you want with there lube under the bolt head/washers or were the deck plates were tq to the .if a stock or lower grade head bolt and deck plates are used and lets says tq to 80 then buy better bolts or do not use teflon sealer as it free s up drag to tq and you can over pull the head bolt and hour glass the threads on the bolts. there is no need to soak pistons just makes a big mess . i oil the skirt and put some oil on the ring compressor band or taper. rocker arms set in oil if rollers but i wash then out first tray of thinner then blow dry .if steel stamp shoe rockers then moly on balls .push rod tip on rocker side oil on lifter end .if rollers there some thing s i do i soak the lifters .if solid rollers i wash lifters out in a clean tray with clean paint thinner .blow dry .set lifter in a nice oil bath over night .hey thats all i going to tell you any more you will have to wait for the book

Valve to piston clearance, 0.080" intake, 0.100" exhaust minimum. Check at overlap, starting 20 degrees BTDC, each 5 degrees all the way to 20 degrees ATDC.

Tape a piece of 320 grit wet/dry paper to a piece of glass and dress the ends of all valve springs in a figure-8 pattern.

Use enough air filter element area to allow the motor to breathe. I like 120-130 square inches on a 355 Chevy.

Paint valve stem tips with indelible ink or Dykem Blue and roll the motor through several rotations to check proper pushrod length and geometry. You want the skinniest shiny mark. In other words, the least movement across the valve tip, no matter where it ends up at inboard or outboard location on the tip. Shaft rocker systems can be altered with pushrod length and shims under the stands or trimming the stands. Measure all valve lengths before having a valve job done to make certain they are the same length. A thin wafer of very hard material is inertia welded to the tip of the valve to resist wearing from the rocker arm, so if you cut the valve tip too much, you could cut right through the hard wafer and have a soft tip on the valve. Lay a straightedge across the valve stem tips to insure the valve seats are all the same depth in the head (You can only do this with certainty if you measured the length of the valves beforehand). Any of you guys who don't have a straightedge, there is a decent one available at McMaster Carr for about 50 bucks. Get the plastic case to keep it in so it doesn't get roughed up in the shop. It's another precision tool to add to your collection.

Roll pushrods on a piece of flat glass to check for straightness.

Check for interference at pivot of rocker arm through full lift. Also check for clearance between the edge of the retainer and the body of the rocker arm at all lifts.

When installing the dipstick tube, put a little Permatex #3 on the pan end of the tube, drop a header bolt into the top end and tap on the bolt head to seat the tube.
http://www.permatex.com/products/aut..._Sealant_a.htm

Trial-fit cam sprocket bolts to make sure they don't bottom-out in the cam before tightening the sprocket.

Magnaflux your pulleys. A little money spent now could save a lot of expense later. Also magnaflux the flexplate before installation. They have a tendency to crack between the bolt holes.

Check valve springs at full lift for minimum 0.010" clearance between each of the 5 coils.

Willie at Isky advised doing a compression test when installing a new cam. Wire the throttle blades wide open, mount a pressure gauge in a spark plug hole and move the cam timing around with offset bushings or whatever works for your particular motor. The idea is to adjust the cam timing to advanced and retarded until your find the highest reading on the gauge. That's where that particular cam wants to be. If you have to either advance it or retard it more than 4 degrees to get your highest reading, you have chosen the wrong cam grind (intake closing point) to match up with your static compression ratio.

Valve spring installed height can be changed with different retainers or (+/-) locks as well as cups and shims.

When using dual/triple valve springs, check closely to make sure the inner springs aren't coil binding at full lift.

If you want to paint the interior of the motor, use General Electric Glyptal
Eastwood Company: Search Results for glyptal

Get TDC nailed down on engine assembly. Also pay attention to the harmonic damper. Be cautious of offshore units, the bore may not be to spec. If the damper is not a good press fit on the crank, then it cannot transfer harmonics to the inertia ring. Always use the proper tool to install a damper.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center

Mock up the distributor drive gear at the cam and the pump drive shaft length during pre-assembly. You may need a distributor with an adjustable collar.

Install studs to attach the oil pan. You'll wonder why you didn't do this years ago.

Use only premium quality oil filters from Wix, AC-Delco or equivalent. I've been made aware of problems with Fram.

Chamfer the trailing edges of oil holes in the crank.

Make certain you have adequate oil drain-back capacity in the heads. I like to epoxy brass screen over the holes to catch shrapnel from the valvetrain (use a large piece of screen placed above the holes so you don't reduce the flow capacity of the hole itself).

Using more cam will normally require more initial ignition lead at the crank. Refer to this chart from Barry Grant for the amount of ignition lead to use with the cam you're using. Where it says 20+, that means no centrifugal, lock out the weights and put the initial lead at where the total timing should be, for instance 32-34 with fast burn heads, 36-38 with conventional chambers on a small block Chevy.
Demon Selection Guide

When degreeing the cam, don't fosdick around with trying to use a hydraulic lifter to check with. It's an exercise in futility. If you have a lathe, great, if not, find a buddy with one and machine yourself a piece of solid steel rod the diameter of your lifters. It should be about 6" to 8" in length so that you can get to the end of it with your dial indicator (using a stand with integral magnet) which is mounted on the block deck. Some fellows will make the tool with two diameters, for instance Olds on one end and Ford on the other. Dress the ends off nicely. Oil the tool and just let it ride on the cam lobe with the tool in a vertical position (motor twisted on the engine stand so that the block deck is parallel with the floor).

Use a cartridge roll on your drill motor or die grinder and lightly de-burr the teeth of your cam and crank sprockets. I also like to use small Nicholson Pattern Files to deburr pieces in and on the motor. There is a set of Chinese "Needle Files" available for cheap at Harbor Freight. To prevent the file from goobering up with aluminum, rub it down with anti-sieze before you start.

If your heads have a flat area opposite the chamber, you can do yourself a world of good by setting the squish (clearance between the crown of the piston and the pad on the underside of the cylinder head with the gasket in place). Small block Chevies do well with 0.035" to 0.045". Big blocks may require a little more due to a larger bore, allowing more rock to the piston and also due to heavier components that may stretch a little more and grow a little more from heat. I am of the opinion that no motor should be put together, even a "goin' back and forth to the grocery" motor, without align honing the main bores and cutting the decks true to the main bearing bore. You can't be expected to build a performance motor if you start with dimensions that are skewed. If the block decks aren't square to the crank c/l, then the heads won't be square to the crank c/l and there is no way the intake manifold will be square to anything.

De-burring, polishing and shot-peening steel connecting rods will increase their strength by 100%.

Finally, here's the down and dirty on flat tappet cams....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...ips_and_tricks

[QUOTE=Itoldyouso;430020]Some very good info has been brought out here so far........thanks.

On the subject of assembly lubes, do you guys have a preference? I have some that are sort of like thick black graphite (almost like grease) in nature and some that are red, more like thick slippery oil. I have used some by the cam makers too, which I use to coat the journals, lobes, and bottom of the lifters. Any preferences there?.........

...........on sealers yes keep away from teflon and max tq on old or so/so faseners, as for lube i using joe gibs assembly grease your talking about the snake oil .elgin oil comp cam oil and the torco oil all about the same torco and comp more sticky about the same as others .and stp abit thicker . all works some better but all are helpers to stop a dry start . pre lube is going to wash most of the stuff in the pan but piston pins cam lobes valve stems all this stuff get lube very well with stuff that hangs on good .the best thing is to have it fire up off the bat .


Don

sorry i ran you over ...i just jump in the middle so i cut it down

Who needs the book, you guys packed this thread full of all the good stuff already. You've all answered a lot of questions I had, and I'm sure others had too. I am going to print out this thread and take it to the shop for future reference.

Thanks guys for sharing your lifetimes of experience and learning.


Don

Not a Pro builder by any means,but on two piece rear mains I always install the seal so the parting lines do not meet with the parting lines of the cap.