Thread: 1969 Chevelle - Cam Upgrade

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What is the best way to do a cam swap? Can you just remove the radiator, ac condensor coil and front grill and gain enough access to pull out and install the cam? Or should I just disconnect the drive shaft, cross member, motor mounts, lift the front end of the car and then an engine hoist to pull it the front of the engine upward enough to gain access or is there a better and easier method.

I told you dont' have to pull the entire engine to do this, but I've never heard exactly how to go about it. Thanks.

Should be able to get it out the front, if I remember correctly the engine sets back a good ways in the chassis. A measurement or two up front should tell you if the cam will clear ..... One of the chebbie guys should jump in here and give you a dimension on the length of the cam......

BTW, welcome to CHR!!!!

front grill and cross tie bar may need to come out as well . take out the rad and condensor and go from there

Welcome to CHR!

You’ve asked a couple questions that I’ll attempt to answer for you in the order posed:
1. What is the best way to do a cam swap? – The “best” way is when the engine is being built / rebuilt and the engine is out of the car.
2. Can you just remove the radiator, ac condenser coil and front grill and gain enough access to pull out and install the cam? Answer to your question is “No”. See below.
3. Or should I just disconnect the drive shaft, cross member, motor mounts, lift the front end of the car and then an engine hoist to pull it the front of the engine upward enough to gain access or is there a better and easier method. The answer is “No” (to the first part) and “Yes” to the second part.
4. I [have been?] told you don’t' have to pull the entire engine to do this, but I've never heard exactly how to go about it. This is true
A couple things here – Yes, you can change the cam with the engine I the car – it’s a lot of work and you’ll have to decide if it’s easier to pull the engine. If you have the wherewithal to pull the engine (and it sounds like you do) – that’s the route I’d go as I find it easier with the engine out of the car for a couple reasons, not least of which is I can clean it up real good and I can get all around it.

You didn’t tell us what size engine or why the cam change – hopefully this is a “near stock” replacement. Let us know what you’ve got in mind with this upgrade. As I recall (and has already been mentioned), you may have to remove the radiator support - measure before you get too far!

If you decide to try it in the car, I’d recommend the following:
1. Get several cans of heavy-duty de-greaser and clean the daylights out of the engine and engine bay. If you don’t have a pressure washer, go to one of the do-it-yourself places and spend as many quarters as it takes to get all the guck off. Remember to cover the distributor really well or the car will not start as water vapor will condense inside the cap.
2. After you get it as clean as you can – park it where you’re going to work on it.
3. Drain the radiator and remove all the hoses – unless they’re really good and soft, throw them out and get new ones.
4. Remove the radiator completely – remember that it will have a little piddle of water/antifreeze left in it. Be sure to clean up all traces of radiator fluid. Pets love the taste and even a little sip will prove deadly to a cat or dog.
5. If you’re a/c is charged, you need to evacuate and recover the charge. It takes special tools and needs to be done by someone who knows how to capture the refrigerant. Check out this web site before you precede - Regulatory Programs | Ozone Layer Protection | US EPA. Whatever you do, do not just loosen the fittings and let the Freon drain – not only is such against the law, you risk an eyeful and potential injury.
6. Remove a/c condenser and compressor. You may be able to “lay” the compressor aside if the hoses are long enough to get out of the way. As I recall on the Chevelle, the compressor is on the driver’s side and the hoses run across the engine so you’ll probably be able to keep the hoses attached.
7. Bring the engine to TDC – pop the distributor cap and note the position of the rotor.
8. Remove the distributor – I’d remove all the wires and spark plugs at this time too (more on that later).
9. Remove the intake manifold – this obviously requires the removal of all the linkages and wires to sending units (typically temperature). Again, there will be water piddle out of the manifold so be sure and clean it up.
10. Remove valve covers and loosen all the rocker arms. If you plan on reusing the pushrods, make a cardboard template that allows you to keep track of there the pushrods came from (box turned upside down with 16 holes).
11. Remove the rocker arms and place them in order as well – another cardboard box works here too – keep them in order. I’m a bit anal and I use a small zip tie to keep the rocker arm, ball and nut together and put them in a 16 slot bin made specifically for this purpose.
12. Pull the lifters – throw them away
13. Remove the water pump – again a tiny bit of fluid here to manage.
14. Drain the oil
15. Remove the oil pan
16. Remove the harmonic balancer –use a tool specifically designed for this and keep track of the woodruff key.
17. Remove the front cover
18. Remove the timing set
19. Using a cam insertion/removal tool, very carefully slide the cam out of the engine. Rotate as you go and be very careful not to disturb the cam bearings. If you feel any pressure, rotate and push in-out very gently as you absolutely do not want to move the cam bearings away from their correct position.
Okay – now you can reverse the above paying very close attention to the following:
1. Clean all gasket surfaces and use sealer (I like Gasgacinch).
2. Double check the lifter galley for any gasket remains – it’s not easy to clean it in the car – out of the car allows the engine to be inverted on a stand and flushed out.
3. Slide the cam in very carefully –believe it or not they are fragile and it’s possible to nick lobes or to damage the bearings.
4. Use copious amounts of cam lube on the cam as it goes in.
5. Soak your new lifters in oil for a couple hours before installing them
6. After cam, lifters and timing set are installed (manually turn the engine over a few times check for any binding before you install push rods and adjust lifters.
7. Use a balancer tool to install the harmonic balancer - remember the woodruff key and make sure it aligns well.
8. Start with ½ - ¾ turns from zero lash on initial adjustment of lifters – easier before you put the intake manifold back on as you can “twirl” the pushrods with your fingers.
9. Turn a couple times after all valves are adjusted and if you feel any binding or feel contact – stop and retrace your steps to remove the offending valve. This is why I would remove the plugs as it’s a lot easier to rotate the engine with zero compression.
10. Set initial timing at 8 degrees with total at 32 degrees.
Go slow and if you need help – ask.

Regards,
Glenn

man glenn you wrote a book there buddy yep your right . he should drink a cold one think about it then just call me up and i send you a fresh 454 or 489or 496 that i have in stock with cam in it. i could never under stand why guys did cam jobs in cars it a back buster when my back was good its a pain in the ass . my buddy use to call me to degree the cam in his mid year vette he swap cams like some change socks . pull the engine put on a engine stand should only take a hour to get it ready to pull alot easer to clean up the engine and work on when on a engine stand

Originally Posted by glennsexton

Welcome to CHR!

You’ve asked a couple questions that I’ll attempt to answer for you in the order posed:
1. What is the best way to do a cam swap? – The “best” way is when the engine is being built / rebuilt and the engine is out of the car.
2. Can you just remove the radiator, ac condenser coil and front grill and gain enough access to pull out and install the cam? Answer to your question is “No”. See below.
3. Or should I just disconnect the drive shaft, cross member, motor mounts, lift the front end of the car and then an engine hoist to pull it the front of the engine upward enough to gain access or is there a better and easier method. The answer is “No” (to the first part) and “Yes” to the second part.
4. I [have been?] told you don’t' have to pull the entire engine to do this, but I've never heard exactly how to go about it. This is true
A couple things here – Yes, you can change the cam with the engine I the car – it’s a lot of work and you’ll have to decide if it’s easier to pull the engine. If you have the wherewithal to pull the engine (and it sounds like you do) – that’s the route I’d go as I find it easier with the engine out of the car for a couple reasons, not least of which is I can clean it up real good and I can get all around it.

You didn’t tell us what size engine or why the cam change – hopefully this is a “near stock” replacement. Let us know what you’ve got in mind with this upgrade. As I recall (and has already been mentioned), you may have to remove the radiator support - measure before you get too far!

If you decide to try it in the car, I’d recommend the following:
1. Get several cans of heavy-duty de-greaser and clean the daylights out of the engine and engine bay. If you don’t have a pressure washer, go to one of the do-it-yourself places and spend as many quarters as it takes to get all the guck off. Remember to cover the distributor really well or the car will not start as water vapor will condense inside the cap.
2. After you get it as clean as you can – park it where you’re going to work on it.
3. Drain the radiator and remove all the hoses – unless they’re really good and soft, throw them out and get new ones.
4. Remove the radiator completely – remember that it will have a little piddle of water/antifreeze left in it. Be sure to clean up all traces of radiator fluid. Pets love the taste and even a little sip will prove deadly to a cat or dog.
5. If you’re a/c is charged, you need to evacuate and recover the charge. It takes special tools and needs to be done by someone who knows how to capture the refrigerant. Check out this web site before you precede - Regulatory Programs | Ozone Layer Protection | US EPA. Whatever you do, do not just loosen the fittings and let the Freon drain – not only is such against the law, you risk an eyeful and potential injury.
6. Remove a/c condenser and compressor. You may be able to “lay” the compressor aside if the hoses are long enough to get out of the way. As I recall on the Chevelle, the compressor is on the driver’s side and the hoses run across the engine so you’ll probably be able to keep the hoses attached.
7. Bring the engine to TDC – pop the distributor cap and note the position of the rotor.
8. Remove the distributor – I’d remove all the wires and spark plugs at this time too (more on that later).
9. Remove the intake manifold – this obviously requires the removal of all the linkages and wires to sending units (typically temperature). Again, there will be water piddle out of the manifold so be sure and clean it up.
10. Remove valve covers and loosen all the rocker arms. If you plan on reusing the pushrods, make a cardboard template that allows you to keep track of there the pushrods came from (box turned upside down with 16 holes).
11. Remove the rocker arms and place them in order as well – another cardboard box works here too – keep them in order. I’m a bit anal and I use a small zip tie to keep the rocker arm, ball and nut together and put them in a 16 slot bin made specifically for this purpose.
12. Pull the lifters – throw them away
13. Remove the water pump – again a tiny bit of fluid here to manage.
14. Drain the oil
15. Remove the oil pan
16. Remove the harmonic balancer –use a tool specifically designed for this and keep track of the woodruff key.
17. Remove the front cover
18. Remove the timing set
19. Using a cam insertion/removal tool, very carefully slide the cam out of the engine. Rotate as you go and be very careful not to disturb the cam bearings. If you feel any pressure, rotate and push in-out very gently as you absolutely do not want to move the cam bearings away from their correct position.
Okay – now you can reverse the above paying very close attention to the following:
1. Clean all gasket surfaces and use sealer (I like Gasgacinch).
2. Double check the lifter galley for any gasket remains – it’s not easy to clean it in the car – out of the car allows the engine to be inverted on a stand and flushed out.
3. Slide the cam in very carefully –believe it or not they are fragile and it’s possible to nick lobes or to damage the bearings.
4. Use copious amounts of cam lube on the cam as it goes in.
5. Soak your new lifters in oil for a couple hours before installing them
6. After cam, lifters and timing set are installed (manually turn the engine over a few times check for any binding before you install push rods and adjust lifters.
7. Use a balancer tool to install the harmonic balancer - remember the woodruff key and make sure it aligns well.
8. Start with ½ - ¾ turns from zero lash on initial adjustment of lifters – easier before you put the intake manifold back on as you can “twirl” the pushrods with your fingers.
9. Turn a couple times after all valves are adjusted and if you feel any binding or feel contact – stop and retrace your steps to remove the offending valve. This is why I would remove the plugs as it’s a lot easier to rotate the engine with zero compression.
10. Set initial timing at 8 degrees with total at 32 degrees.
Go slow and if you need help – ask.

Regards,
Glenn

Thanks Glen. It's a 350 stock engine, actually it is a GM Crate Engine with the heads from Mexico #33417369 made post 1990. Just a street car with a turbo 350. Just looking for a cam with good low/mid end torque, quick throttle response and decent gas mileage with a little lope. Like a Lunati 60102 .219/.227 .468.489. Got a 3.73 posi, Edelbrock RPM Performer Intake and an Eddie 750 cfm. Already have some Edelbrock E-Street 2.02 aluminum heads 70cc that I will put on in the process. Oil Pan has a severe crease in it, not leaking - yet, so wanted to change that out too. Someone hit a speed bump I guess. It has stock manifolds and 2 1/4 dual exhaust with no "x" or "h" piece. that's about it.

Damn----If I'd known that much was involved I'd quit changing cams between 45 minute rounds at the races----

"12. Pull the lifters – throw them away"

Remember to buy some new gaskets while your picking up new lifters..

More $$..

You sure you really want to do all this just for a little more torque? lol

You'll notice improvement - but not from the cam, rather the heads. As you've described what you currently have, you're over carbureted. The heads will definitely breath better but not knowing the piston configuration, a new cam would a crap shoot. Put the heads on using .028 head gaskets (GM part 10105117) and you'll be pleasantly surprised. Drive it like you stole it for six months and when you're ready to do some serious work, i.e., pull the engine - let's talk some real specifics and we can help you build a beast - or - you can call Pat and he will build you a monster that will introduce you and your friends to God (and result in a dry cleaning bill for your shorts!) the first time you find wide open throttle.

Have Fun,
Glenn

Pat, can you send me an engine proposal for the car built as either a turn key or ready to run.

What kind of numbers would this make:

387 Stroker
Edelbrock RPM Performer Aluminum Heads 2.02/1.60 70cc combustion 185cc intake Light Porting
Victor Jr Intake
Holley 750 Double Pumper
Comp 288HR Cam .520/.540 .236/.242 both at .0500 and .288/.294 advertised
Harland Sharpe 1.6 Roller Rockers
March Pulley System
9.8:1 Compression
Forged Eagle Crank and Rods
Forged Mahle Pistons

And will it move 3,500 pounds on the street with 3.73 gears?