Thread: suicide front end

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I have my Model A rod all planned except for one thing:

If I go with a drop axle in the stock location with reverse eye spring, etc. I don't think it will be low enough for the 'Old School' look I want.

So, I'm thinking of going 'suicide' front end, but the only instructions I have are for building a perch. Where can I get complete build instructions such as mounting springs on wishbones, etc.? Please help!

Check out the $3 K post. I am in the process of doing this very thing right now. I submitted some pictures tonight.

I'm actually copying , sort of, the setup my Kid has on his '29. Here is a picture of that front end.


Don

Here's another picture---Just use the complete stock front end. The only thing different is that you must split the wishbones and attach them to your frame rails.

Brian: I notoce that one is using stock spindles turned around to get the arms in front. How does that work out? I was thinking on doing this with the T Bucket, but have always heard Ackerman is goofed up. I remember that supposedly the Total Performance bolt on arms are engineered to put some of the Ackerman back into the front end, but I have looked at the ones we used on my Kids '29, and I can't see any difference in angle or anything.

I've got some unmolested spindles, and would love to use those, if nothing else, to save some money.

Just curious how these work out.


Don

I noticed the reversed spindles too---That is not something that I would do, and I would not recommend that anyone else do. If you just reverse the spindles from side to side, it screws the Ackerman up big time. I would run the spindles in their stock positions, with the tie rod behind the axle.

Okay? Whats ackerman?

The short answer is it is the geometry that causes the inside wheel to turn a little further than the outside wheel, which gives you good control on turns.
When you put the arms in front, it does just the opposite, and the tires sort of skid through the turns

Because T buckets traditionally have no room for the arms to go behind the axle, because of the springs and perch occupying this space, the arms have to go in front. I read where Total Performance arms are engineered to correct this problem, but I can't see how, looking at the set we used.

What dictates if you have correct ackerman is if you drew a line from the center of your rear axle housing to the center of your spindle kingpin, it should pass through the center hole of the arm, where the tierod bolts on.

Perhaps one of our computer experts can post a drawing of this, as they so often do, to help understand the principle.

Don

Here ya go.

Just got to add, with over 6k on a TP 23 the front end is A+, NEVER have had a problem, even with the skinnies up front, and the MT's in the rear.

Looking at your picture (very nice bucket, by the way) I see how Total Performance did it. See how the arms go clear out to the sides? If you drew that imaginary line like in Bob's diagram, and extended it to where the tie rod is now positioned, it still is within that triangle. They have bent the arms so far outboard that they are in that plane.

They could accomplish this because of the smallish disc brakes they use. For those of us running drums, it is impossible to do this, without hitting the backing plate.

So, if I can't find clearance behind the axle for the arms and tierod, I am going to be forced to use the stock spindles turned around backwards, and just see how it works out.

Don

Hey Viking, I gotta ask..... Did you have the camera at an angle... or does the house in the background have a really crooked roof???

Hey Dave---Your right!!! That pic must have been taken just after the last big quake!

yup, either that or carpenters drink too much!!!!

Leave it to Dave, bucket was in a friends yard on a hill, guess I squared the pic in the viewfinder.

Well, heck.....Somebody had to ask.... Thought maybe they built things different in Branson!!!!!