Thread: 4 Bar, Triangulated or parallel

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I want to put an Air Ride suspension in the back of my 53 Studebaker. (eventually in the front too) I am looking at the packages from Air Ride and they offer both triangulated and parallel 4 bar systems. I'd llike to hear experiences and advantages or disadvantages of both designs, also any alternatives to the Air Ride brand. I will need to hire the installation work as this level of fabrication is beyond me. My goals are ride height adjustment with decent ride and handling, along with being able to control the rear axle under acceleration.

thanks

Pat

I guess on a cruiser I prefer the triangulated. Main reasons are that they are extremely stable and smooth handling, will tolerate a considerable amount of horsepower, and because of their configuration totally eliminate the need for a panhard bar (yuck) or watts linkage (way better). I've built them both ways, in 90% of the cars I've seen a triangulated is by far the better choice.....JMO

Pat: Judging by the workmanship on your Stude, I don't think much is beyond your fabrication abilities. What is probably making you leary is that this sort of technology is a little foreign to you, and to me too. But I will try to get you this info when my kid comes home from work. He has done quite a few bagged cars and trucks, and knows the ins and outs of what makes one work better than another.
As I have posted before, his latest bagged car is his '29, and the one before that is his S10. When I look at the suspension on them it really is only slightly different from conventional springs, except that you are using airbags and the related pumps etc to control the ride. You also have to allow for additional travel as you will be able to dump the car much lower.

When he gets home I'll ask him some of these points for you and post what he says. Here are the two I mentioned below.

Don

In the absence of any other considerations I'd say pretty much the same as Dave has. I think the triangulated setup has an advantage in traversing uneven pavement (visualize one end of the axle going up while the other maintains or drops), less "bind" on the upper arms (parallel 4 bar guys will likely deny they've ever experienced this, but I would suggest that's because they have no immediate comparative to judge against).

That being said, exhaust routing with triangulated arms becomes more of a challenge, and the bulk and heat vulnerability of air bags adds to that. If you've got enough "real estate" I'd vote for triangulated, otherwise the parallel system, complete with panhard bar may make for easier/better packaging of all your component needs.

Ok Pat, I caught Dan and asked him some questions about this. He was a little reluctant to give specifics because he says there are so many variables and every car and install is different. Plus, there are lots of opinions on how best to do it.

But here are some of his thoughts:

Air Ride Technologies makes nice stuff, but they don't like to get into custom lengths and stuff. Most of their kits are application specific, and even their universal kit is one length on the bars. The are also a little pricey.

He likes Suicide Doors better. They will custom make the bars to your length, are very reasonable in price, and super to deal with. (My '39 has their stuff under it, and so does Dans '29.) Their bars are 1 and 1/2 inch DOM and built super strong.

He says if you have the room, go with triangulated, as they eliminate the need for a panhard. The install is not one of the most simple jobs and takes much planning and fabrication. You will be rebuilding the rear of the frame to accomodate them and mount them.

For bags. there are tons of choices, but one place to start would be Firestone double convoluted bags, like a number 255, but that is only one choice. Vi-Air makes a good compressor, in many models, but a number 460 is a nice one. For valves, SMC are good ones, too.

Suicide Doors can help you pick out all the right components. He does say that bags are not the hottest set up for high performance usage. Coilovers and others are better if that is one of the points you are wanting to gain.

Hope this info helps get you started in the right direction.


Don

Thanks for the input guys. Any thoughts on the combination shock/airbags like AirRides Shockwaves? That should free up some space.

Pat

Don't know just a thought,do those have the same amount of travel as bags do.?

price wise a shockwave is 799.00 pr , vs a cool ride set up at @350.00. i prefer shockwaves , compact, stylish , adjustable .

for a 4 link for sure go to suicidedoors.com

from my exp. air lift co. makes just as good of equipment as air ride but are more resenably priced they have there own version of the shockwave which if you ask me air lifts version rides much better and gives you a 7 position adj shock in side. definetly go triangulated 4 link there are many ways you can install it if you run in to space problems hope the info helps if you have any other ? feel free to ask

Thanks! I was not aware of the Air Lift stuff. Great to know about competition!

Pat

Just to clear some things up! On the rear of vehicles with a four link (either a parallel or a triangulated) you would want to use a sleeve style airspring. The double convoluted airsprings (a 255) is designed to pick up a lot more weight and does not have much travel; the sleeve is more suitable for the rear. This will give you a better ride quality and performance. As far as performance goes do the research. Check out this post from another Forum.



I saw it with my own eyes At the RTH2 Auto-X from hell, the faster cars were running sub-70 second laps. Anything in the 60-second range was considered good for street tires. A 63 is killer. A 64 is excellent. 50's were only possible on stickies. Air Ride showed up with two A-bodies and one F-body. All of the cars were fast and the Air Ride guys, Britt and Brad, really know how to drive. Beyond the air springs, you must also consider the Air Ride hard parts such as their a-arms and tri-four links.
So it's official: The only thing that was full of hot air we're their springs. For what we are trying to accomplish here at Pro-Touring.com--which is to build capable street cars--AirRide parts are just as fast as metal springs and other suspension parts. Sound like an ad? Nope. I'm just a believer trying to share some first hand news. We caught it all on video, too, so you can see for yourself. Worst case scenario, the numbers indicate that their A-body stuff works better than their F-body stuff. Times are listed below.

66 Chevelle Britt Marolf-Britt was smooth. As the times show, he was fast on his first run and kept tweaking his laps. Note that all but one of his runs are clean (no cone penalties or DNF's)
TIMES: 69.176, 66.202+1, 64.577, 66.338+1 (68.338), 65.181, 64.318

71 Camaro: Brad Coomer-Brad has a, umm, propensity for throttle oversteer, so it looked like the car lacked bite. Brad was fun to watch and the car was fast anyway. His bets time was a 69 and change. DNF means that Brad lost his way a few times. But when we put Tony Bolton (the local gun) in the car for the Camaro Challenge, the car hooked and went with a lot less tire smoke. The "T" in the numbers below are with Tony Bolton driving.
TIMES: DNF, DNF, 63.797+3 (69.797), 64.186T, 63.936+1 (65.936T)

71 Buick GSX:At the last minute, Tony Bolton hopped in the big Buick and ripped off a 63. This car had more power, but also more heft. Air Ride owner, Brett Voelkel, showed that he is not afraid to put his driving skills or his high dollar rig to the test. He had a lot of trouble navigating the Auto-X from Hell, so we only have one official run--but--man--it was fast. Faster than any of the Camaro Challenge results. Brett would have really benefitted from riding with a navigator in the passenger seat. Then we would have more data. Regardless, we have one fast run. And fast is fast.
TIMES: DNF, DNF, DNF, 70.790DNF, DNF, 63.817T

I was just as skeptical as many you regarding the actual function of Air Ride suspension. No more. The right Air Ride parts, combined with the right wheels and tires (not 20" street rod wheels), an air Ride car can handle. Sorry if that bursts anyone's bubble (pun intended).
__________________
Steve Chryssos
Because four fat tires are better than two. That's why!
Twist Machine,LLC
MuscleRides

Originally Posted by Jeremy536

Just to clear some things up! On the rear of vehicles with a four link (either a parallel or a triangulated) you would want to use a sleeve style airspring. The double convoluted airsprings (a 255) is designed to pick up a lot more weight and does not have much travel; the sleeve is more suitable for the rear. This will give you a better ride quality and performance. As far as performance goes do the research. __________________

Jeremy, Thanks for the info. I understand about the convoluted springs. How to the shock combos like the ShockWaves compare to the sleeve style?

thanks

Pat

you can get a sleeve stile air over shock from air lift and if you go to there web site you can see there are many different mount combs you can have. hope that helps

The Shock Wave will open up some space. As far as the performance you do have more adjustability. It has a 16 position adjustable shock in it. However in most cases the air spring and separate shock have a little more travel to them. I hope this helps!