Thread: Hub to Hub M2 kits

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Installing the crossmember isn't that difficult, just be sure to mark the frame rails with the centerline of the original king pins, the center the new crossmember on this mark and center the coil over top mounts or spring mounts on the same centerline. The most important thing is to have the frame supported solidly before you remove anything.... If you don't have to remove the original crossmember before installing the new crossmember it's a cake walk. Oh yeah, you will also have to box the frame rails where before installing the new crossmember. I've include a pic of a '58 Chevy pickup that I did recently, different truck, same procedure.... I've done enough of them now that I have the whole install process down to about 6 hours....

On the pic, note the centerline drawn on the boxing plate from the old straight axle. As you can see, the original crossmember is still in place. After this pic was taken I added a new front crossmember where the frame rails end, then removed the original crossmember...

Hope this helps, if not, let me know what else you have concerns with....

It's a 50/50 deal. If the installer is experienced, with this type of install, with your type of vehicle, with that (whatever) brand of crossmember assy, then it should be a caker to just have him do the crossmember install by the measurements. But something else to think of. IF, when you put it together and get the components aligned properly, it turns out not to be in the correct position, you take it back to him to complain, he looks at you and says something like "Hey man, I told you I wanted to do the whole assembly so this kind of thing wouldn't happen. I did it your way so it's all your problem!" That's how you end up with two ticked off people. All comes down to your tolerance for risk and your ability to choose a shop.

Then there's the other factors in play. Some vehicles look better after they've been lowered, and raked, with the front axle moved slightly from the stock centerline. Mid fifties F100's for example. So sometimes a mockup is helpful that way too. Depends a lot on your sense of aesthetics and how picky you are/will be.

And, it should go without saying, the first step in the process is to make sure the frame is square, and not a parallelogram or tweaked in some other way. If the shop doesn't do that then you could end up with one side right, the other wrong.

Very good points made by Uncle Bob, all the stuff I forgot. You should also notice in the pic that the frame is securely mounted on my chassis table, everything was measured and leveled multiple times, then carefully tacked and welded in a manner that would not twist anything out of shape. Thanks Bob!!!!

I won't have a table, but will put multiple supports from rail to rail to hold everything in position. My frame is what is called a "tophat" frame, on the bottom side is a flat plate that extends horizonoly across the bottom of each rail. once I mark my centerline I should only have to notch this lip the width of the new crossmember in order for it to fit agianst the "box" of my rail. Does this sound correct to ya'll?

Also...while we are talking frames....I am looking at the 4-link (triangulated ) with coil-overs.....I want the widest tire/wheel combo without narrowing the frame. This "lip" on the frame sticks out approx 2", I was considering shaving the outside frame lip and then re-inforcing the effected area to allow for wheel/tire combo. I hate to destroy a good frame by narrowing ....plus the added cost... and my inner fenders are the best part of my floor !!......opinions from the experienced ?????

I have my stock front end intact as well so placement of the new crossmember shouldn't be a big deal, but I can just see it now...they weld in the new crossmember exactly where it is "supposed" to go then I get it home to install the rest of the front end and it ends up not going together right. Then I have to take it back to them and have it repositioned so I'm probably better off just letting them do it. Then I'll be getting a half roller back so I may as well have them weld/bolt a couple new leaf springs on while they're at it but, at $50 an hour where do I draw the line? O well that's just the joys of building a car I guess!

Dave, Bob- all very good information. Bob, good point about a possible argument with the installer...that's the exact thing I'm worried about. I believe most of his experience is on Chevys of similar years and trucks so I'm not sure he will nessesarily have the experience with this car to rely soley on the measurements and leads me to just say screw it I'll just let him install the whole kit.

If you're relatively sure your frame is in good shape the rear suspension is an area where you CAN save some of that labor $. Both Chassis Engineering, www.chassisengineeringinc.com, and SAC, http://www.sachotrod.com/index.htm and perhaps others sell very nice dual rear leaf spring setups that are essentially bolt ins. I've had both and been happy with both. The SAC will sit lower than the CE, but the CE is spaced for either a Maverick, or a Nova 10 bolt (see the catalog on their site). They're not pure bolt ons as you will have to drill out more holes, but they use Ford factory existing holes to start with. Really pretty easy installs all things considered. SAC doesn't list theirs on the above site, you'll have to call and talk to them about it.

On both of these, once you've got them located and even partial bolted in, you could have the shop weld the brackets to the frame if that was more to your liking.

Shouldn't hurt to lose the lip, long as you box that section on the inside of the rail. Triangulated 4 bars are my favorites. As far as who's to get, lots of good ones out there. I have a job shop here in town laser cut me a bunch of brackets, then build my own. I prefer that to the store bought universal ones.... If they make one application specific for you, then you're in luck....

The notch for the front should work. Also, when I make "house calls" to install an IFS, I clamp some 1 1/2" X 2" rectangular tubing in front and behind the point where the new crossmember goes in, just added security to keep from moving a rail where I don't want it... If you don't want to spend a bunch of money on clamps, it works to just tack the tubing to the frame securely, then grind the welds off when the boxing plates and crossmember installation is complete.....

Thanks for the info, I should be making the call on ordering the M2 kit early next week. I am getting a hand with some assembly and he said we would fab our 4 link rather than buy a kit, ya'll are on the same page...right down to the use of polyurethane bushings......and I really like that !!!!
It is sort of wierd....after 4 years of collecting parts.....looks like the 'ol coupe will start the building process !!!

Bob- I have looked at both the CE and SAC bolt in rear leaf kits and like you said SAC doesn't list their kit on the website so I'll have to give them a call although I like to see what I'm buying before I buy be it in person or just pictures. Rear leafs shouldn't take long to install so I may just have the shop do that too just to get a roller back...I wouldn't be saving much to install the rear springs myself probably.

37Chev- what MII kit did you end up deciding on? I thought I had picked Heidts Deluxe kit, but I also like Fatman's Stage III and along with the catelog, they sent me a 35-40 Ford specific insert with some good information...

If you're really going "hog wild" on your car, think about front and rear anti-sway bars...........you'd be surprised what a difference it makes in cornering and overall ride quality.

Here's a couple pics of my '36 roadster, the bars are CE front and rear, the suspensions are Heidt's in front, CE in the rear.

That's the Heidt's Deluxe there right Bob? Also, what size blocks are those on the rear and do you have side pictures with the body/fenders on yet? Happen to have any pics of the rear upper shock mounts? Thanks

Don't remember ordering it by the term "Deluxe", but it's the ground crossmember, narrowed control arms, dropped spindles, big brakes. The blocks in the rear are 3" for now (before useage), and once the rear springs settle (as they always seem to do), I'll probably change to 2", maybe less if I take out a leaf for tuning once it's on the road. The front coil needed trimming too to get to the ride height in the mock up picture below.

I see you edited for the shock mounts. The second pic is the best I've got, they're basically triangular shaped brackets that fasten to the stock rear crossmember. Also you can sort of make out the rear spring hangers attached to the frame rail.

Bob, I noticed you said narrowed control arms, is this to allow for a wider than stock wheel/tire on the front without fender clearence problems?

If you look at the mock up pic you'll see the wheel is pretty close to being centered to the fender, so you are correct. It was especially important for this build because I wanted to use these specific wheels (decision made prior to specing the suspension), and if you look carefully you may notice the front wheel has a fair bit of negative offset, if I recall the backspace is less than 3" (2 5/8?) on a 6" wide rim. Also selected a brake setup that didn't push the wheel outward like most of the typical "big brake" conversions do (typically 5/8" per side). Mixing the "right" parts gives what I consider the "good" look without punishing bearings and negatively affecting steering quality.

so many questions...let me know when I start annoying you

I too was wondering about narrowed control arms...I would like at least a 205 or so wide front tire (I don't have a specific wheel picked out yet so I don't know about backspacing) so I assume I would need narrowed control arms. So everyone that uses the regular control arms uses narrow wheels 6" and under?

Is that CE rear spring kit bolted or welded in?
So you have the stock frame with a stock rear crossmember? Did you do any boxing or added support to the rear of the frame or just the front?

What is that wheel tire combination and what backspacing on the rear? I know I asked you before about the suspension on the '40 sedan you have a picture of on here, but it realy helps to hear what all fits from others to save time and money figuring it out you know?

Finally, what engine are you using with that stock firewall?