Thread: Homegrown Alignment

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How do you custom builders handle front-end alignments?
Do any of you do garage alignments?

I had mine done again at NTB after I replaced my defective balls joints - ended up with 1.7 driver side caster and .7 on the passenger side.
It feels ok but I want more steer ahead.
Camber and toe looked good.

Maybe I just need the right shop - but which one is that?

I know there is a trig relationship between caster angle (straight wheel) and camber (when turned hard one way or the other). If the wheel were turned 90 degrees, they would be equal.

Anyway - just curious - I always want to do everything myself - at least once.

I still use a caster and camber gauge and a set of turn plates left over from my circle burning days. Longacre and a number of other manufacturer's sell them. I also have a fixture that I use for checking bumpsteer. While you're learning, do some studying on roll centers, too.....

While you're learning, do some studying on roll centers

I'll look into that -

I did google caster settings enough to run across a race site
http://www.r3racing.co.uk/Images/news/1089640169.pdf
that illustrated their product and how it could be done.

A laser level mounted as an extention of the spindle (off the wheel rim) COULD accomplish similar results, 'scribing' a line on a standing graph.

Anyway - Here's a couple pictures of my tires - I believe the caster difference is clearly noticeable. That can't be good. I took these pictures using a level on the camera.

Caster and camber have to be measured at the same time as one setting will effect the other.... Bump steer and roll axis are also very important. A laser level might be accurate, but I doubt the procedure for mounting it at exactly the same point from side to side would be as accurate as the tried and true caster/camber gauge. These settings also have to be measured in a correct procedure, with the wheels turned to 20 degrees right and left of center, thus the need for the turn plates....

I understand the desire to do it yourself, but I can't figure out what the big deal is. Any competent alignment shop can align that car. It isn't like it is a late model car with no alignment points. That Nova is simple and if all the componants are in decent shape, just, ALIGN it.


I think you need a new place to go.

Brian

The settings will be different from left to right to compensate for the crown of the roadway.

Originally Posted by techinspector1

The settings will be different from left to right to compensate for the crown of the roadway.

That is way old school, these days, unless you are talking about somewhere where all the roads are old two lane it just isn't the case these days.

I have only been doing alignments on a regular basis the last five years or so and I RARELY see a car where the specs are different side to side.

The only difference is usually in caster, a little more on the right to "push" the car to the left. The camber problem on the Nova, would do the same thing, push the car to the left. But it just isn't needed, and not so drastic of a difference.

No, the guy who aligned this either doesn't know where the alignment points are on this car and just assumed that there is none, OR there are bent componants or frame where he went as far as he could. But if that were the truth, I would say he could have brought the "good" side closer to the "damaged" side to make them more even. So my bet is that it was a "McTire" shop and the poor guy is "aligning" late model cars all day with no adjustment points setting the toe and sending them down the road with a "Thats as good as it gets without installing a kit". He thinks that this car is the same when actually it has a LOT of alignment capibility.

A "kit" by the way is an eccentric bolt or shim or a number of other goodies that "allow" the stock suspension to be basically, modified so it WILL align. Being there are NO alignment points on MANY late model cars other than toe.

Brian

Thanks for the update Brian. In case you haven't noticed,.....I AM.... old school. Lost in the 50's

I noticed that in that site, it illustrates positive camber. The camber that is best for handiling is actually negative camber, not positive. This means that the best handling cars have the bottoms of their wheels/tires extend farther out than the tops. This way, when a car goes around a corner and the car's weight transfers, the entire tire is making contact with the road, as opposed to in no camber, where only the outside edge touches the road. In negative camber the wheel that is making maximum contact with the road also has the weight on it. This is why positive camber is inferior to negative- the tire that makes full contact with the road in positive camber is the one with the weight off of it. Of course, any camber at all reduces the tire's contact with the road in a straight line, reducing both the tire's street life and ability to hook up in a drag.

The camber that is best for handiling is actually negative camber

Didn't really understand WHY negative was better til that explanation - thanks.

Yeah - I realized any garage effort would be futile. I was pretty frustrated.
Now I understand more about the parameters. I gonna try the muffler shop down the street - after I talk with them.

I'd like to shoot for these numbers from www.pozziracing.com
That's the only reference I've found.
These are actually Camaro specs.

Caster: 3 - 4 degrees positive (+) PS = more, manual steer less.
Camber: 1/4 to 1/2 degrees negative (-)
With upper a-arm relocation Camber: 0 degrees (with Guldstand Modification)
Toe-in: 0 - 1/8 inch

That is a lot of caster for that car, at least from what it had from the factory. As I remember they were at about zero or 1 degree positive. So a serious stack of shims would be required to get it, I would think.

Now, it really depends what you want out of the car. Those guys know a hell of a lot more about this stuff than I do, but basics are basics. More camber, better cornering, yet they have only a half a degree? That's like an S-10 pickup specs. And the high caster, that is for "down the highway" sort of driving, if that is what you are after, cool. If you want more handling then less caster and more camber is what you are after.

Look at a dragster or a salt flats car, they will have a ton of caster as much as 18 degrees. Positive caster gives you less rolling resistance and more "hands off" straight ahead qualities. Less caster makes the wheel "bite" into the corner.

Unless you have some suspension mods like tall spindles and such (increases camber on compression) which is probably what that "Guldstand" mod is, you don't need "hot rod" specs. Just put it at a stock or near stock Nova and you will be pretty close. More negative camber, that is what you want if anything.

Brian