Thread: New steel, know what you're getting!!!

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Friend of mine here locally is a circle track car builder called yesterday and invited me to stop by his shop, had something to show me.

When I got there he showed me two pieces of DOM tubing, both 1 5/8" OD, .083" wall, the typical size used for building tubular frames, roll cages, etc. On one he had a piece of tape and had written 'domestic', on the other tube the tape had 'import' written on the tape. Jim put the 'domestic' piece in the bender, hit the switch and bent up a 90*, 5.5" radius bend--tubing came out of the bender perfect, no rough spots, no signs of stress from the bend anywhere... Then he put the 'import' piece in the bender.....by the time the bender got to 50* the outside of the radius was showing stress risers along the surface, when he got to 90* and pulled it out of the bender there was fractures and 2 cracks on the inside of the radius!!!! Not at all what one would want in a roll cage!

Jim and I usually go together and order tubing, but he had ran out before me and bought a couple sticks of tubing from elsewhere, this supplier gave him a piece of import tubing, told him to try bending it and see what happened. Well, we saw and it's downright scary!!! I've always said that the driver is the part of a race car most easily replaced, but I wouldn't want to replace on because the cage came down on him!!! Seems a flood of this 'import' crap has hit the market, comes from China and is priced much cheaper then the US or German made tubing we usually get. I called this supplier that Jim had got the tubing from, he also told me that there was some Chromemoly 'import' tubing on the market, too being sold by suppliers who are more interested in the bottom line then the quality of their product!!!

I guess the bottom line is to know your supplier, stick with a supplier who sells US or German made tubing and become very suspicious if someone is selling tubing at a huge discount...step right up and demand to see proof of the country of origin on the tubing!!! If it's an Asian import, or the seller just doesn't know the country of origin, then run like hell and find yourself a new supplier!!!! One piece of this junk in a critical area such as the frame, suspension components, or the cage can cost you a lot of money--or even someone's life--later on when it breaks!! Saving a few bucks on the cost of materials just isn't worth it!!!!


PS--- A good steel supplier also has available a tech sheet for every product he sells, showing strength test results, the exact chemical composition of the tubing, the variance found on the test on wall thickness and inside/outside dimension, and most importantly where and by whom the material was manufactured!!!!! This product sheet is a good thing to look over before you buy the product!!! I used to just toss this sheet in the trash with the rest of the packing when I received an order, but from now on it's going to get filed away with the rest of the information sheets and instructions I get with any other parts order!!!! I can imagine some real liability issues down the road if a second owner or other party were to find that this low quality import crap was used in a build and failed later on!!!!!!

Scary stuff Dave, thanks very much for the heads-up!!

Wow we've known for years now that alot of manufacturers of tools have switched to china for steel and production, and the lower quality is evident. But I never would have thought to ask where the raw steel I was buying came from. Very scary, thanks for the heads up!

You got to know what your buying (and using)

Isn't the global economy GREAT, it just keeps getting better and better. Thank you Dave !

Corporate Scum!! Parameter don,t even reply!! Pete

No surprise to me. Remember, the Chinese were painting baby cribs and toys with lead based paint. They have no quality standards

What was the outside finish like? Did it look just like American DOM? or do you have to bend it to tell?
the scary thing is that much of the tubing sold gets cut and used in straight sections or just a slight 'kick'. Its been a while since i bought dom and while i don't remember labeling or country of origin being printed on it i do recall that it had a high quality finish.
I bet tons of that stuff will show up in those strut kits from people like competition engineering intended to be used as straight pieces for main hoop back braces, seat back brace and short diagonals.

Originally Posted by ojh

What was the outside finish like? Did it look just like American DOM? or do you have to bend it to tell?
the scary thing is that much of the tubing sold gets cut and used in straight sections or just a slight 'kick'. Its been a while since i bought dom and while i don't remember labeling or country of origin being printed on it i do recall that it had a high quality finish.
I bet tons of that stuff will show up in those strut kits from people like competition engineering intended to be used as straight pieces for main hoop back braces, seat back brace and short diagonals.

It's not printed on the tubing, but your supplier should have a product sheet on the tubing, much like the MSDS that comes with paint materials. Anyway, externally it looked like regular good quality DOM tubing, no flaws visible until it was in the bender. Talked to a couple other circle track builders, some of it is showing up in Moly tubing, too.... I guess the main thing I'm doing is sticking with a known supplier that I've done business with in the past and are 100% certain that all of their tubing is produced domestically. Just not a good time to be price shopping with new companies, I guess.....

Oh yeah, also on Friday saw a piece of HREW 1 1/2" .095 tube that was split on the seam with a 45* bend....I wouldn't consider using HREW on any kind of go-fast car, but I know of a lot of builders who do use it because it's so much less money then DOM or Moly...... Another lesson in you get what you pay for.

Been there done that. Just try welding some of the asian steel its worse than welding rusted stuff without cleaning it. Also nuts bolts screws, steel, SS different grades from local hardware stores all junk. Some the threads are not even exactly correct. The nut will wobble around on the bolt.
Brake line fittings the champher is too narrow or the hole size is too loose on the tubing.

Cheap hardware and fictitious grading of it has been a problem for years.... I try to keep on hand what I need, usually order from Gardner-Wescott, when I have to get something locally I pay the extra $$$$ and go to Fastenal. I do use the cheap stuff for mockup and some fixtures, but the final assembly hardware is always the good stuff!!!!! Once upon a time had some bogus grade 8 bolts that hold the steering arm to the spindle on a sprinter break, cost me a junked car and one heck of a wild ride!!!! Never again!

I have dealt with an aircraft supply shop for years without problem and the materials are top quality. Whenever i have to get an 'odd' piece of something i go local and the crap i get from them is incredible.
The telling difference between quality aqnd junk is when i machine or drill it. If i run a drill bit into good milspec chrome moly the cuttings off the bit are consistant and even, the drill bit penetrates in a smooth motion and the resistance is the same all the way thru. With commercial grade metal the cuttings fly off the bit in inconsistant chips, the bit penetrates haphazardly and you have to push it thru rather than it cutting thru.