Thread: Cross member from 95 Roadmaster in 1937

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I'm exploring another option for the front suspension & steering for my 1937 Roadmaster.
I have a 1995 Roadmaster donor car and I'm considering cutting the front cross member out of that car and grafting it into my 1937.
Virtually all the 95 steering, brakes, and suspension could then be used.
I'm already using the power train and rear axle out of this 95, so this would make all replacement parts from the same model car and will also save money.
This would change the 37 to a front steer set-up.
I would not be able to use the 95 steer box because it normally resides where the 37 frame passes through and supports the front bumper.
I have a 77 Scout 2 box that may work because the box sits on top of the frame and the pitman shaft goes down to the bottom of the frame.
The lower picture shows the cross member I would cut from the 95. The other pictures show the cross member installed in the 37 frame.
My question for anyone who has grafted cross members:
1) Will it work for me to cut rectangular slots half way up from the bottom of the 37 frame and half way down from top of the 95 cross member so it can be slid up into the frame?
I could then have the cross member welded to the frame.
Thanks

Isn't the roadmaster frame a full length frame??????? If so, couldn't you shorten it in the middle and mount your 37 body onto it thus using all the original points front and rear so suspension geo remains correct with out a bunch of cobbling parts together????

The 95 Roadmaster does have a full length frame. At the rear axle it matches the 37 frame pretty close, but frame gets much wider at the center and at the front is also wide.
Can't use the frame because the 37 body is much narrower at middle and follows the frame closely.
The front fenders actually bolt to the frame as well. The 95 frame will actually fit on the outside of the 37 frame at the front axle. My plan is to cut the 95 frame behind the front spring pockets and in front of the anti-sway bar mount. Then knotch the 37 frame to allow the 95 cross member to fit up. The 95 crossmember will actually be located behind the 37 crossmember and I will probably leave the 37 crossmember in to support the radiator. See the attached picture that shows the cross section where the green is the 95 cross member and the gray is the 37 frame.
1) Would it be better to take all the knotch out of the 37 frame, or take some out of each?
2) Is there anyone who has pictures of a crossmember that was welded in like this?
Thanks

Check out this link from HAMB, you should be able to use the same idea on the 95 frame to make it narrower in the center....joe

Thanks for your help.
As far as the approach using the crossmember from the 95 Roadmaster, the most similar approach I have found so far is for installing a
Volare ifs. Found several sites with detailed info on this:
NOTES ON A VOLARE FRONT CLIP INSTALL
Pilothouse Truck Knowledge
The installation they show seems pretty similar to what I would like to do with the 95 Roadmaster crossmember.
This upgrade described several places as not being as technical as replacing a front clip from a more modern vehicle because the frame is not fully cut.
Thanks
Mutt

Originally Posted by Mutt's37Buick

I would not be able to use the 95 steer box because it normally resides where the 37 frame passes through and supports the front bumper.

You're making this more difficult than it needs to be. DO NOT mix and match steering components. Use everything from the '95 and bridge over or under the steering box with a "U" (or upside down "U" or lateral "U") of 1 1/2" x 3" or 2" x 3" or 2" x 4" or whatever material closely matches the frame dimensions at that point, to connect the rear and front parts of the '37 frame.

Originally Posted by Mutt's37Buick

Will it work for me to cut rectangular slots half way up from the bottom of the 37 frame and half way down from top of the 95 cross member so it can be slid up into the frame?
I could then have the cross member welded to the frame.
Thanks

Again, seems like you're trying to make this more difficult than it is, but yeah, that'll work.
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Thanks for the feedback.
I'll take another look and try to use the 95 steer box.
I'm trying to keep the original 37 cross member in place for rigidity and to support the radiator.
Thanks

Originally Posted by techinspector1

You're making this more difficult than it needs to be. DO NOT mix and match steering components. Use everything from the '95 and bridge over or under the steering box with a "U" (or upside down "U" or lateral "U") of 1 1/2" x 3" or 2" x 3" or 2" x 4" or whatever material closely matches the frame dimensions at that point, to connect the rear and front parts of the '37 frame.


Again, seems like you're trying to make this more difficult than it is, but yeah, that'll work.
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Originally Posted by Mutt's37Buick

I'm trying to keep the original 37 cross member in place for rigidity and to support the radiator.
Thanks

I understand. Build the bridge, then cut out the part of the '37 frame that interferes with the '95 box. Everything stays aligned. No problem.
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I apologize if these seem like simple questions, but this is the first project car I've built:
1) I assume I will set up the front suspensionwith the engine and frontmetal removed.
If so, then how to you take into account the weight removed weight when setting up the height of the front cross member in the frame?
2) I have been told it is preferred to remove the body to weld in the rear suspension in the frame. Similarly, how do you take into account the weight of the body when setting the height of the rear suspension?
3) Do you set up the front suspension, or rear, first or do you set up them together?
Thanks
Mutt

The main concern will be setting the car at ride height with the proper rake or level or Kentucky hillbilly look front to rear. That's what you're after, right, THE RIGHT LOOK?

OK, first, find a '95 Roadmaster that's in your neighborhood and currently running on the street (or maybe an example in a used car lot that the owner will let you look at). You will want to take some measurements and angles off the control arms and their relationship to the crossmember as the car sits on its tires and wheels. Ideally, you will be able to drive the car to a shop that has a drive-on hydraulic lift. That will allow the car to sit squarely front to rear and left to right on its tires and allow you to get underneath to measure everything. Some measurments may have to be taken from under the hood also, like laying an angle finder on the upper control arm to determine front to rear angle as well as well as lateral angle.

What you want to find is the angle of the upper and/or lower control arms in relation to a part of the crossmember itself when the vehicle is "sitting at the curb". You'll want the car sitting on a flat, level surface with the front tires inflated evenly left to right. Factory-recommended air pressure doesn't matter much, as long as both front tires have the same pressure and are the same size and brand. The car must be level left to right, so crawl under and place a level on the underside of the crossmember to make sure it is. If not, drive it onto a shim such as a piece of 1" x 6" x 6" wood, or 2 of them or 3 of them. Whatever it takes to begin with a level car, side to side and front to rear as produced by the factory.

With the car at ride height and leveled, use your angle finder, levels, straightedges, mason's string and any other tools you have to find a relationship between the upper or lower control arm and the crossmember. You'll also want to know the angle of the crossmember front to rear. With the angle finder on the flat part of the underside of the crossmember, what is the angle? Zero? 1 degree up bubble to the front? 1 degree up bubble to the rear? With the angle finder on the underside of the lower control arm, what is the angle? Zero? 1 degree angled up to the tire? 1 degree angled down to the tire? You may have to position a piece of wood under the control arm to have a flat place to put your angle finder. If you have to do this, keep the piece of wood you used and pay very close attention to where you positioned it on the control arm so you can replicate the position later on your own control arm. What is the distance from the center of the front spindle to the ground? What is the size of tire on the car you're measuring?

Once you have every conceivable angle and measurement written down, you will be ready to replicate the angles on your front clip/crossmember. Put the whole mess together (sans springs) using whatever materials you need to, so that you will have a crossmember/control arm unit that replicates the running car that you took measurements and angles off of. Make two stands, one for each side, that will allow the mess to sit on the spindles at exactly the radius of the tires you intend to use. In the past, where the shock goes through the middle of the coil spring, I have used 1/2" Allthread to replace the shock and tie the whole mess together so that the upper and lower control arms replicate the angles found on the car you took measurements and angles from. Do whatever you have to do to lock the control arms into stock ride height position/angle in relation to the crossmember.

Now, sit the '37 on a flat, level surface with jackstands under the car at the firewall and trunk area. Ideally, you would have the car up on a jig, but I have done this whole operation on a concrete floor in the past, building a plywood floor up off the concrete with shims to make the pad level side to side and front to rear. The last time I did this on a concrete floor, my shims started off at zero at the left front and ended up with over 2 inches of shim at the right rear. That's why you don't want to build off a concrete floor. It isn't level by any stretch of the imagination. This is where you make or break the whole project, getting the car level and at exactly the ride height you want in your finished product. I have also found it helpful to rig up the front fenders temporarily, so that you can eyeball the front to rear position of the tire and wheel in relationship to the wheel opening in the fender. You don't have to build to any particular wheelbase at this point. Wheelbase does not matter. What you want is the tire and wheel looking the best front to rear in the fenderwell, as you view the car from the side. The car might look better with the front tire 1/2" further forward or 1/2" further to the rear than the stock '37 tire was in the fenderwell. This is all a matter of what pleases YOUR EYE. Years ago, I determined that ground clearance should be held to 4", so keep a 4" x 4" block of wood in your shop for sliding around under the car when you are building it. Keep everything above the block of wood and nothing will scrape when you are driving down the road loading and unloading the suspension.

You will want to find points of reference on the '37 frame that are the same front to rear, like maybe a rear spring eye or some other hole that is the same front to rear on both sides of the frame. Drop a plumb bob from these reference points to the floor and make a mark on the floor on each side, then snap a line between the two marks so that you have a chalk line across the car from side to side. This will be the line from which all other measurements will be taken and will establish a line to measure from for installation of the differential housing. Now, use your 12 ft. tape measure, make a mark at the front of the car that is 12 ft. from your reference line at the rear. Measure from rear to front at two points, then snap a chalk line across the marks. Now, you have two reference lines that should be 12 ft. apart and exactly parallel with each other. If 10 ft. works better to put you in the vicinity of the spindles, use that. If 11 ft. works better, use that. It doesn't matter. You are just trying to lay a line at the front that you can measure from later, that is perpendicular to the (front/rear) centerline of the car and parallel to the rear reference line. Measure on an "X" at both sides to make sure you have the marks exactly parallel. Measuring from your original drop points at the rear to the center of the line will allow you to make a mark on the rear reference line at exactly the center of the car. Do the same at the front. Connect the dots with a fore/aft line. Now, from a bird's-eye view, you should have a set of lines that look like a capital i (I). These lines will allow you to drop plumb bobs from other parts of the frame/body to measure from.

Slide the front clip up under the car and raise it little by little until you get it at ride height and are able to attach your stands to the spindles. Drop your plumb bob on each side down to your lateral reference mark to get the clip square in the car. Now, it's just a matter of "trim and try", "trim and try" until you get it right. Then weld it in and move to the rear of the car to do the same with the rear differential. Do not weld anything to anything until you have measured your work several times and even had another set of eyes to look over what you're doing and agree with you that the whole mess is square. MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT YOU REPLICATE THE FRONT TO REAR ANGLE OF THE BOTTOM OF THE CROSSMEMBER THE EXACT SAME AS IT WAS ON THE CAR YOU USED TO FIND THE ANGLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Failure to do this will change caster from the as-designed-by-the-factory spec to some fosdick spec that won't work.

One of my buddies came by the house one day to show me his latest purchase, a '56 Ford pickup (Effie). It was absolutely gorgeous, BBC, 8-71, two fours, flawless turquoise paint and turquoise and white leather interior. I accepted his offer to drive it and it was one of the biggest disappointments ever. Whoever had installed the front clip had failed to take the front/rear angle of the clip into consideration, welding it into the truck with ???? caster angle. When you turned a corner, the truck had so much negative caster that you had to manually return the steering wheel to neutral. AAAARRRRRGGGHHHHH. No way to fix it without cutting the whole front clip out and re-positioning it. JUNK. He paid $35,000 for junk.

Using my instructions, you will end up with a front suspension that sits properly in the car, at the ride height you have determined for yourself. There will be no need to cut springs or use dropped spindles or any other such FOSDICK crap that seems to be the norm with builders who have no idea what they're doing in the first place. The car will turn corners, start, stop and handle exactly like a stock '95 Roadmaster. It will have the smooth Roadmaster ride, not some choppy, fosdick ride like you get with cut coils and the steering wheel will return to neutral on its own accord following a turn. The finished weight of the car should be close to what the '95 is, but if it turns out a little lighter or a little heavier, you can call up Eaton Detroit Spring and have them supply you with a lighter or heavier RATE spring that will allow the car to sit stock and ride like the '95. The key here is to pay attention to your angles and replicate stock.

I don't want to confuse you, but will add a tutorial that I wrote several years ago for a fellow who was using Dakota pieces on an old International pickup.......
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Frame_swaps

Keep those cards and letters comin' in, I seldom get tired of answering questions for those who really want to learn.

Only thing I would add to Tech's advice is before you remove the sheetmetal, engine, or anything from the Roadmaster donor is to remove the front shocks and make a set of tubes to replace them that are the exact same length as the installed height of the shocks when they are in the car. Easiest way to do this is to put a tie wrap around the shock rod and push the tie wrap down to the shock body, then when you get the shocks removed, measure the length of the shock from mounting point to mounting point with the shock compressed to where the shock body just touches the tie wrap. Build your tubes to this same distance between mounting points, put them back in the car and tighten them up. This will retain the correct angle of the lower control arm.

You will have to have the engine and trans installed and the body on the frame to set your ride height correctly. Once things are tacked into place, you can remove the body, engine and trans, and all the rest of the stuff in your way so that you can get at everything to weld it properly!

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Build your tubes to this same distance between mounting points, put them back in the car and tighten them up. This will retain the correct angle of the lower control arm.

When Dave talks about "tubes", he's saying the same thing that I did above when talking about using 1/2" Allthread and locknuts to replace the shock and lock the lower control arm into the correct position to hold it. Tubing is the professional way to do it. Allthread is the down and dirty "home garage" way to do it. All of this can be very confusing to someone who has never done it, so I will try to over-explain everything.

Scroll down here to see tubing used in the place of coilovers during building......
Kinetic Vehicles
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Thanks techinspector1 for this great detail on how to set up the suspension. I still have the drive train and suspension in the donor car so I can take these measurements and lock the control arm anges before I remove them.
Thanks Dave for your help as well.

Heres an update on some added info I found.
A gentleman named Ralph Sauceda described how he and friends have done this swap on three early 50's Chevy trucks.
http://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/...=504299&page=1
Here are some pictures.
http://s597.photobucket.com/user/rns...91486981051259
Looks pretty close to what I planned except I would like to keep more of the original frame intact for radiator and fender support.
Thanks